Hamster Wheel Conversations with the Narcissist

[…] trying to explain and defend.  This will only lead to a hamster-wheel conversation that leads to nowhere – except emotional collapse on your […]

Thank to the Almighty, i am so enlightened by Kim’ website, this is so so true…. i have been in this Hamster’s wheel for the last 18 years, God got me out of this now, i have enrolled in the course and hopefully i will never turn back to my husband again for all the mistreatment and abuse and cheating that i have been through all these years. My focus is now myself and my two adorable girls. I am much better and able to think and sleep well…..

Taking a break from working at home to try and figure out why I always feel like I need a drink after a ‘conversation’ with my boyfriend of 10 years. Yes, it’s taken me 10 years to figure out that we don’t have a deep relationship, just a very surface one with lots of fun. When I try to bring up our relationship, somehow it always ends in a fight with me crying. I have no idea why it’s taken me this long to figure out it’s his way of shutting the conversation down. He’s a skilled manipulator, which I’ve known for a long time, but I didn’t realize he was narcissistic. Thank you for this article.

I wished I had know this 3 years ago while of course I did not know that my ex was a narc. during and after our relationship I figured out that he had a mental problem. But nonetheless er only communicated because we had kids and I felt like I was on a roller coaster ride just about every conversation was the same about getting back together and how he had learned his lesson and was going to change,who was at fault – even though he would tell me it was his in order to let my guard down. but will tell everyone else it was mine. I would setup up boundaries but every time I did they slowly were dismissed as the narc doesn’t know what boundaries are. It amazes me that i still have a sound mind after dealing with all this drama for so many years. I have finally gotten a restraining order and don’t call nor text, which has given me a perfect peace of mind.

Reblogged this on tamdef.

I left my NPD fiancée. It has been four months NC. It shall forever remain that way.

I have just recently had the strength to finally listen to some recordings I had made during hamster wheel conversations/disputes. Tonight was the first time that I ever listened to them since I recorded them six months ago. They don’t even compare in insanity to the first initial ones we had months before, but at least it’s a recording of something. I find my road to recovery is being compromised by PTSD. It comes in waves and it is most destructive. I know many have said that they would have loved to have had a recording of these hamster wheel conversations to prove this insanity……I have them. I don’t know what to do with them. I have posted many emails and texts from him on this site. I search in vain on the internet to find “real” texts, emails and hamster wheel conversations posted by survivors….I have found nearly none.

Does anyone have any information or knowledge with regard to finding real examples of their words, emails and conversations? Are there any real audio samples anywhere? Does anyone have advice for me as to what I can do with my audio recordings? I can’t stop thinking that it will help someone, somewhere, sometime…….

I can’t accept that the trauma and abuse that I have suffered from my NPD relationship was meaningless. I can’t move on by sweeping this under the carpet. I have to make sure that my voice from this experience is heard, and that any information I can pass down might help another in the future.

Where do I post these messages? Where do I post the audio? Do I post it at all?
I’m struggling…….please advise. Lend me your wisdom.

Reblogged this on I'm Still Me ~ Only Stronger and commented:
I needed this. When my ex-narc acts like a human after periods without contact, I start to think he’s changed. Let the co-parenting begin! I always get burned.
I also struggle with thinking I’m crazy. He’s out there acting somewhat normal right now, so perhaps I am just being unforgiving or hard to deal with.

Kim , I have two questions. Firstly why is it even after roaring moments with my ex narcissist he still continues to pursue me? How many here in this forum have gone through or are going through this ? He responds saying I like how you get mad at me, I love you even more!! Secondly, is there an expiration date for these narcissists with their behaviors. I was married off to a man twelve years my senior. He came to India we married and we settled In USA. It was a year into my marriage did i notice he was receiving lots of calls in the nights, and he would leave our beautiful home and talk outside. Once I checked his phone to see all these women’s numbers. I didn’t say anything I just watched his behavior. He started getting verbally abusive , insulting me picking out my flaws , telling me how ugly I was and not fit to the standards of the so called women here!! Oh i don’t want to go that memory lane again. But to cut it short, Thank God I live here in USA and having being educated I divorced him. So he is nearing 50 now!! is there time limit for their behavior? When will it all end and the world crash for them? I am moving back to India, but until than his pursuit has not stopped . I have heard he has been seen with many other women too!! I hope he doesn’t find out I am moving , the thought scares me if he does.

This really helped me today. As you know, I live i a situation with narcissists and I keep falling into the trap of “hope” with them….sigh…

Great posting!!

I had something happen to me today that kind of woke me up to the depth of abuse and control I suffered. I got tickets to a rodeo from my boss who owns a chain of feed stores. There will be several others from different stores there as well. It dawned on me that if I was still with the Narc, I would not have allowed to attend, even though he would have been invited as well. This thought helped me to get a little more of my power back. The Narc I was with had kicked and screamed when I visited friends and family. Sometimes successfully keeping me away from them. Hopefully these kind of realizations will continue to get the hold off of me and make me understand just how sick he really is, and to know how not to ever succumb to this kind of treatment again. I am worth a lot more than that. And I know it.

Can you please provide some insight into the narcissistic personality towards pets, co-workers and other relationships?

Wow…he used to tell the stupidest joke that didn’t make sense… but he laughed and laughed…. I read how they also don’t get humor… point being one of the lines was “pass the salt” so needed this today was thinking of the hamster wheel of his incessent chatter…but worse thinking of all the great time’s we had and things we did and what was that?!?! Oh right the mask…the blah blah blah to distract and the love bombing to keep his place in my home.. sometimes the illusion is hard to let go of. But I am happy to say it is getting better and better. Have been NC for 4 months?

They know what they are and are proud of it. GRiFter used to have this saying on his FB: “What we are never changes. Who we are never stops changing.” When I met him I wondered what that meant and continued to wonder throughout the “relationship.” After I educated myself on NPD and Narcissists, I understood completely. “What” he is–A malignant Narcissist. “Who” he is–Whoever he needs to be to ensnare new Supply. Based on what I now know about how his disordered mind works, he was warning all Supply he is a Narcissist. Anyone too stupid to heed the warning, was fair game and perfect Supply. And deserve what ever happens to them after the fix is in. Cold. Calculated. Intentional. Zero feelings.

I recently (April 2014) was dumped for my narcs new supply, and as I type this and grasp really how many months it has been its shocking because in some ways it feels like yesterday, yet I’m just now feeling like I’m coming out of that dense fog and can feel the me I use to be…but better for coming out on the other side. I happily stumbled across Kim’s site bout December 2014 just googling options of my feelings to see if anyone in this world “got me” otherwise I knew I really was crazy for what I, my son and his sons witnessed for our 5yr relationship. I cannot tell Kim and all of you how much relieve it is to have found all of you and to read our journeys, my whole heart goes out to each of us, and as I read each post to gain knowledge I gain strength. Its a NC situation since July 2014 but doesn’t mean it isn’t frustrating to me because of the typical cowardly way the narc does their thing, 5 yrs together, 4 living together, engaged since Oct 2012, April 7 2014 he walks in the door says it ain’t working and by May 6 2014 me my son and our Boxer Nika were in our new residence, May 18 2014 his new supply was at his home (he had his boys that wknd which had never met her) and she stayed a week, real nice. I was told early June 2014 that she changed her status on FB to in a relationship with him and one particular comment said something bout “hasn’t this been going on awhile”, no duh. Anyone that is blessed to stumble across this site as I did and if ( and be real to yourself when reading) these messages and posts resonate with you make a plan to find your real self again cause your living on a “Hamster Wheel” .

oh wow i love the comparison. I was doing great with my NC and his silent treatment with me i have moved on too, now he not only continues to pester me but even involves his friends and family to coax me to accept him back !! i thought i gave up on being the hamster but I see i have been caged again!! emotionally once again i feel so stuck and back to ,no not crying, but more like “god when is this going to end?” I have tried hard to cut it off but now i feel this is total harassment!

That so described my ex-husband! And now I’m seeing it in my son. It’s very painful to watch.

I just wanted to add something my ex said to me after we split and I think it was one of the few things he was actually honest about. He told me that when I cried and told him he had hurt me he thought I was trying to manipulate him. It makes sense because they have no idea how to really feel and imitate the emotions of others in order to manipulate them, they just assume everyone else is doing the same thing.
Their whole life is based on “winning” and getting what they want, AND getting you before you get them. They also thrive on the pain of others, it symbolizes their power over the victim, if they can make you hurt and cry then they are in control of you so by telling them they hurt you, you are in essence telling him he is achieving his goal and the abuse will continue.
I tried to not react thinking that if he didn’t get the payoff he was looking for he would stop but that only made him try harder, upping the anti until I couldn’t help but to react.
It is a no win which ever way you look at it.

It takes a few times repeating myself to finally get this as truth. You can’t go back. They will never change. I always end up being the only person in the room that’s hurting when the repeating starts. I like the way you laid this out in your post. 🙂

Your articles are the first emails I read each morning!! They ALL help!! Today’s one was such a great reminder to get off the hamster wheel!!!

Another great post, Kim! I used to drive myself crazy thinking, “Maybe I didn’t phrase that right?! If I’d only said it this way instead of that way, blah, blah, blah!” I found with my ex that saying he hurt me was either registered blankly like ‘pass the salt’ or would send him into a rage because I “made” him look bad by saying he hurt me and that my saying I was hurt was actually more hurtful to him and that he felt like the one being emotionally abused!!. Wow, how they can turn anything around! Also, a great title for your post! Sums it up!! 😉   From: Let Me Reach with Kim Saeed To: [email protected] Sent: Wednesday, January 21, 2015 7:09 PM Subject: [New post] Hamster Wheel Conversations with the Narcissist #yiv3037784956 a:hover {color:red;}#yiv3037784956 a {text-decoration:none;color:#0088cc;}#yiv3037784956 a.yiv3037784956primaryactionlink:link, #yiv3037784956 a.yiv3037784956primaryactionlink:visited {background-color:#2585B2;color:#fff;}#yiv3037784956 a.yiv3037784956primaryactionlink:hover, #yiv3037784956 a.yiv3037784956primaryactionlink:active {background-color:#11729E;color:#fff;}#yiv3037784956 WordPress.com | Kim Saeed posted: “One of the most important aspects of maintaining No Contact and going on to recover is being able to see your narcissistic partner for who (and what) they truly are.  They can seem so genuine sometimes, and we make the mistake of assuming that they mu” | |

Love the correlation to the hamster wheel. Very true!! We try to communicate but get caught in vicious cycles with no end. Thanks for sharing all that you do.

I wish I never met or fell in love with the narcisist in my life. I wrote him a letter today expressing my feelings, trying to make him understand once more how I feel. every time I express my feelings to him, he says i am picking a fight. I guess he is the only one allowed to feel feelings and to be able to express them. I wish I were dead. It would be better than feeling this heartache over and over again…28 years of loviing a narcissist…and I’ve never been loved back n matter what i have done…no matter how good a friend i am to him. I am just a piece of shit. Thats it, isnt it?

4 months ago I left an 18 year relationship, I was ousted from our house and left with nothing but the clothes on my back, leaving my cat and everything that belonged to me and at age 61 it was very scary. I spent every day for 17 years searching for answers, trying to understand his behavior, lies and infidelities. He even had an affair with my 23 year old son’s gf and I forgave him. This past April I started going to a therapist and after 6 months of weekly sessions I finally realized that I was coda and lost myself entirely. I began setting boundaries, working out, lost weight and feeling stronger and better about myself and he retaliated!!! I have filed for a divorce and of course he locked me out of bank accounts, credit cards and our safe at home that had all of my jewelry, passport,ss card etc. unfortunately he is still controlling my life for now, my attorney is taking care of everything and hopefully I will get back what is mine. I realize now that I was hanging on to an illusion. The sick part is that I am really grieving the loss!!! I have stayed strong and have had NC, but it has been so very hard. I am so happy that I found this site, Thanks to all!!

Been on that hamster wheel for far too long!! It amazes me that no matter how many times I, or his children as a matter of fact, have told him to stop deflecting the issues back on to us or laying guilt trips on us – they no longer work on us or have any effect. He can still continue to try to do so and even have the nerve to say he is not doing these things even when it’s blatenly obvious that he is…… So glad he is now someone else’s problem!!! Just a matter of time before he screws her over just like he did me, his children & business partner……and when it happens – NO sympathy here, that’s what happens when you knowingly get involved with a married man still living with his family! No contact is such a relief, which also drives him nuts too!

Once again Kim…you’ve hit the nail on the head! A hamster wheel of conversation is a perfect way to describe it.

Just last week, my ex narc told me on the phone “I DO still care about you…after all you’re the father of my kids. I’d like to sit down and have a heart to heart soon.” Keep in mind that we’ve been divorced for 5 1/2 years, she’s remarried and has a baby with him. I’ve been on this ride many many MANY times. She wants something…don’t know what yet, but time will tell. The only time the narcs tell you they “care” about something is when they have a hidden agenda…or when they need the salt passed. We have kids together,so I have to maintain some contact with her, otherwise I would have gone completely no contact a long time ago.

My narc ex also began interrogating me the other day. The conversation began talking about taking our kids to the dentist…until I interupted, “What’s the REAL reason for your call?” The question caught her offguard, but lo and behold along comes her interrogation. She starts asking invasive, personal, non of her business questions. Heck she even asked me about what tax credits I expect to get this year. Stuff that she has nothing to do with. I swear to god, she just phishes for anything. I told her I dont have to put up with her harassing and invasive interrogations, and she had the gall to say “oh yes you do!” So, I reminded her that there is nothing in the law or the court orders that say I even have to talk to her…then click!

I think my ex is getting the idea that I am beginning to exercise power over my own life. She doesnt like it, but I for one am getting off of the hamster wheel.

Thanks again for your awesome insight Kim!

This is so true. NO CONTACT! Wow and I somewhat learned the hamster wheel concept when I was still married but silly me I kept trying because I just thought some it was me. Well I was married over 30 years. This situation was so frustrating that it nearly drove me over the edge. Luckily he left (he was cheating and she was going to tell) and I divorced him. I have found that no contract had saved me a lot of frustratation and has helped me to evaluate myself.

So true! The decision to go no contact with my abusive ex was hard! I remember that moment when I made the decision because I knew that I would have to give up things that I love. Like my pets. It was sooo hard for me to give them up, I loved them so much. But there I was, in a domestic violence shelter & he still found ways to control me be threatening to get rid of them while I was looking for a new place to live because they couldn’t stay with me at the time. The sickest thing about people like that? I guess he found a way to follow me on Facebook. So once I finally was away from him on the other side of the country and settled, he found a way to contact me. See, I own an online business and he pretended to be a customer just to open the initial dialogue. After 10 minutes of talking with this supposed customer, he finally told me it was him. And the 1st thing he brought up? My pets that I left behind because he KNEW that he could get to me that way. I was going to just block him and forget it, but him mentioning my pets gave me pause. How they miss me so much. How they haven’t been the same since I left. How dare I “ninja” myself across the country to my home state. Event hough he was the one to kick me out in the 1st place. He almost got me back into his web, it almost worked… Almost. I had to take a step back and re-read everything that he was saying to me. Something I started to learn through therapy by recognizing abusive behavior and point blank manipulation. So after I took that step back I then shut it down and blocked him. So I’m happy to say that I’ve been no contact for almost 3 months now. And I’ve never been happier! ♥

Thank you! I am finally sticking to the modified no contact policy I have with my ex. Just today he once again tried to suck me back in by sending multiple emails. But I don’t bite anymore and I feel so empowered.

Wow you are one strong lady, lady! I spent nearly 4 on/off years with one of those narcs and 18 years and upward is inconceivable to me. I would have probably been an alcoholic by that amount of time. And it’s interesting you say that he has your jewelry and valuables in a safe. My narc, who I didn’t live with when he went final discard, wanted me to put my savings in his safe. Because he didn’t trust my bank. I changed banks. He didn’t like that bank either. I lost a lot financially by listening to his advise. I’m glad I was wary enough to not put my cash, what little I had, I his safe. How ironic. I wasn’t completely duped because by then he had already done several silent treatments. I trusted my gut on that one, and now looking back that is when I started to get out of my fog. I still mis that sorry sob too which is really mind boggling. Keep going, you’re doing great!

This is too funny. The more I read the more I see what I have been going through with this so called “man”, I used to say he talked in circles…ok, the hamster wheel title makes so much sense. You know, I have wondered so many times wtf, am I the one with the issue here, or am I calling him a narcissist just to put a “name” to it, what am I trying to do here? Well, the more I read the more sure I am that yep, he’s a narc….