narcissist comes back after months

Exactly Why the Narcissist Comes Back After Months

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Did the narcissist leave you for a new love and is now having “second thoughts”?  Perhaps you hadn’t heard from them in ages, and suddenly the narcissist comes back after months?

Or, did you finally leave and are now being stalked like an episode of Investigation Discovery, complete with love-bombing and hoovering to the nth degree?

As convincing as it may seem, this is simply the narcissist trying to hoover you back into a toxic relationship with them. 

Every single action employed by the narcissist stems from a pathological need to control others.  In order to prove your love to a narcissist, you must surrender all power and control to them and become a real-life marionette, whose only purpose is to enhance the narcissist’s false image, take care of their every need, and accept their self-serving abuse.

The narcissist has no real identity, only an illusion of themselves built on their ability to control other people.  When they lose said control, this illusion is shattered.  This explains why they shift into turbo gear when you implement No Contact.  No Contact makes the narcissist feel small, worthless, and powerless.  They whip themselves into a frenzy because they need your supply to maintain their false image.  When you go into No Contact mode, you are shifting the power to yourself, and the narcissist loses their sanity because they’ve lost not only their God-like power, but also their emotional punching bag. 

Narcissists are never happy.  They are full of jealousy, rage, insecurity, and hatred.  Due to this, he or she has a load of vile bile stewing in their stomach cavity at all times, and they need someone to project their negative emotions onto.

You’ve been emotionally and financially abused and cast-off like a paper bag from McDonald’s.  You suffer from PTSD/C-PTSD, Trauma Bonding, Stockholm syndrome, crippling self-esteem, and depression.  The reason you feel this way is not only because of how you were treated but because you’ve effectively internalized the way the narcissist has conditioned you to feel.  They must devalue and discard their victims because once they are no longer able to absorb and internalize the narcissist’s self-hate, the narcissist is forced to find a new receptacle.

It’s also why they appear so happy with the new supply.  The new supply doesn’t know the narcissist’s agenda and will go along with whatever the narcissist asks of them.  But as was the case with you, and all the partners they had before you, the new supply will eventually be devalued and discarded, too.

Victims often believe that when the narcissist comes back after months, it’s because they’re in love.  Allow me to share the Narcissist’s perspective on the topic of love, written by John Howell:

A Narcissist’s Love Letter

When I say I’m in love with you, I mean I love the way I feel when I’m with you. I love myself through you. I love seeing myself through your eyes. I love seeing myself through my eyes imagining how I look through your eyes. I love having someone new to tell my stories to, to express my opinions, and to share my profound theories and beliefs about the important things in life. I love hearing myself say these things as I imagine how they sound to you, and how enthralled with me I imagine you are.

When I say I’m in love with you, I love having someone beautiful to wear, like a new outfit. I love the way you feel on me. I love the way I feel about me when you are with me.

When I say I’m in love with you, I love not being alone. I love not being that tree falling in the forest. I love having a full-time, personal audience.

When I say I’m in love with you I mean I love being your mystery, your riddle, being what keeps you up at night, your obsession. I love being your altar, your sacrament, your icon, your miracle. I love being your answer. I love being the object of your sacrifice. I love being your pain.

When I say I’m in love with you, I mean I’m in love with being your sun, monopolizing your orbit, being your gravity, keeping you drawn back to me no matter how hard you try to jump or fly, keeping you down. Keeping you mine.

When I say I’m in love with you, I mean I’m in love with breathing your air, sucking your blood, eating your dreams. I’m in love with being your drug, your dagger, your suicide note.

When I say I’m in love with you, I mean I love the story I can tell to my next lover, about my ex-lover, about how beautiful things were, how intense, how storybook, what a couple we were, and how you gradually, inexplicably, painfully, bit by bit, disappeared.

About John

John is a novelist, writer, entrepreneur, and consultant, whose best consulting is focused on what he did that others should avoid.  You can find more of his work here on WordPress, at

Are you stuck in the back-and-forth of trying to go No Contact for good? Reclaim your inner power, disarm the narcissist, and finally stay congruent with your wish for a healed life!


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Irene Madrid says October 7, 2023

OMG! THIS is what I needed to know decades ago. YES, this is whop he was…..emtionally and financially destroying me until I devoted ‘NO CONTACT’, the best thing I have ever done in my life. As he lay dying he yelled, ” Your mother is winning and I am losing!”. I AGRRE with this. I now thrive, travel, ski, decorate, shop, entertain—-so much peace and joy in my life now.

Dawn christy says September 7, 2022

I had a narcissist so called female friend. She took advantage of my vulnerable position as a person with mental health problems and physical disability. She spoke down to me tried to constantly control me and put me down . Spoke to me like a child like she was in authority. I’ve blocked her from my life and from my phone for good. I hate narcissists. They are the lowest of the low and such monsters ! Good riddance! To bad narcissistic rubbish !!

GUEST says September 17, 2021

Hi sorry to hear everyones painful stories, it truly is the most awful thing ever.

It can only be described as a LIVING NIGHTMARE…

but unlike nightmares this one you cant wake from !!..

Literally a living Hell…

No matter what you do, dont do, say, dont say…

Your the Controlling, Manipulative , Abusive One.

All done to hide who they really are & what they are actually doing to you, PURE EVIL

This is however not about us…
This is all about them…

If you listen cafefully to what they say to you, they are actually telling you what they are and or what they are doing to you.

Mine even told me he was a COWARD, said he hadnt been a very good partner to me, shouldnt have said this or done that…
So they know exactly what they are doing !!..
and they just couldnt care less, they couldnt even care less what its doing to you the one they say they Love.

Its a weird calculated madness…

One us mere Genuine, Loving, Caring, Giving, Trusting, Empthetic, Loyal Mortals will never ever understand.

They just want from us what we have got… All those beautiful qualities and things in life that they will never have…
They want it all, at all costs, so they slowly & painfully strip it all from us, they take everything we have, even our energy…
We are left with nothing !!..

Just left spinning, not knowing what hit us…

But if you dig real deep & can manage to think through the brainwashing & brain fog, the one thing they cant and will never be able to take from us is our ability to Love…

So even when they have taken literally everything else from us, we still have the ability to Love.

Think about it, we still Love them, even after everything awful & unforgivable that they have ever said & done to us, we still can & do Love them…

Just to be able to do that after being treated so badly by them, shows us just how special we really are.

Hold on to that…

They it seems are not able to Love as we know it, they have no connection to feelings or people, they are empty vessels, they are never happy, they take, never give unless they want something. They are jealous & envious of YOU, they literally want EVERYTHING that you are & you have, including your SOUL…
they will even take that !!..

All for what… “Power & Control”

and where does it all get them?

Absolutely Nowhere…

They have gained absolutely nothing by doing this to us…
Gained them some short lived satisfaction maybe because they have hurt us & caused us pain…

So we might all be HURTING REAL BAD right now but as much as it hurts & oh boy does it hurt & each & every one of you out there will know exactly what that feels like, I personally would rather be me & hurt this much than be like one of them !!..

So perhaps we can all utalise that hurt to think what have we gained from this HORRIFIC, life changing ordeal & experience ??

Hopefully all the skills we need to make us even stronger & all the knowledge we need to ensure that we never ever give away our heart & soul to just anyone who doesnt deserve it and nor will we ever let anyone take from us so much of ourselves.

Remember the reasons they picked YOU… & it wasnt because you were weak…

They only target good, honest, decent, strong, sucessful, happy, Loving people with everything going for them.

You have everything they want
& they want it for themselves…

They will literally destroy you, slowly & painfully to get it,
It is all a game to them…
They get satisfaction from watching us suffer…

and they know exactly what they are doing… they know right from wrong, good from bad…
So this is a Choice them make…
They Choose to act like this !!..

and all because of the one & only CRIME we are all GUILTY of…


A Punishable Offence, probably none of us were aware of with a Life Sentence !!..

Hold on to that LOVE you still have inside you…
No one can ever take that…

Hold your head up high…
This is Not about YOU & I
This is about THEM

All they need us for is to use us, lie to us, be nasty to us, verbally, emotionally & in some cases physically abuse us & dump all their hatred onto us, to make them feel bigger, stronger & better about themselves…

All Very, Very Sad really….

and its all not their fault really
some deep childhood trauma
which means they are the way they are & they are forever stuck in a 3-5 year olds mind set

Not happening…
You just can’t have a Logical Conversation with nor Reason with a toddler…

That person we all fell so in Love with doesnt exist…
They mirror us & so We all basically fell in Love with Ourselves !!..

So all we have to do now is learn to Love Ourselves as much as we Loved them… without them…

Easier said than done though !!..

Mine was of all things a…
“Magistrate” would you believe it.

All Very Shocking & Very Sad…
I never knew such EVIL Existed…

I was used & abused verbally & emotionally to the point of Total EXHAUSTION without realising until months after he discarded me like a used dirty tissue
No Warning, No Reasoning, No Closure, No Contact
Sadly I still Love him dearly, despite losing everything & him calling the Police & threatening to get me put in Jail !!!!!!!!!!……….

I am totally spinning, dont know which way is up, I find it difficult to make decissions & I feel completely Lost without him !!….

So whatever it is, it is an Extremly Powerful Drug that they silently inject & Seduce us all with…

A Truly Awful, EVIL Experience…
One I hope I Never have to Repeat or go through Ever again…

I only hope we can all learn to Heal from this Hurt, Damage, Devistation & Destruction they have reaped on us all…

Remember YOU saw all YOUR Beautiful Qualities, Your Strength, & All Your Love Reflecting Back at You, when you fell in Love with them…

They are NOTHING & Dont Exist…

    Martina says October 27, 2021

    This really hit home for me

    LWise says January 14, 2022

    That was perfectly put. I felt your comment ad if it was me saying it

    Ellie Jg says May 7, 2022

    Powerful statements beautifully presented.
    This morning, searching for a response to my ex narcissistic unmarried baby father, whos dumped me and left me to rott… is now, after 7 month posting me with calls and text messages using his daughter as a tool to keep me locked and unable to move forward…
    So I felt your words and enjoyed reading you this morning.
    Thank you.

Karin says July 17, 2021

I grew up with a mother who was (is?) a narcissist. It took me 48 years to finally go to NC. I was, am, the scapegoat. My siblings, the golden child and enabler. Like my father was. Although, sometimes he tried to help me.
I lost contact with all other family members. Having trust issues, no friends.

Last year, an ex-colleague started to woo me. I didn’t want it. Yet, as a good narcissist, he exactly knew what to do. I should have recognized it. But he is, I think, a covered narcissist. There were many things that didn’t fit. But he never had negative comments about my looks, behaviour etc. He “only” neglected me, ignored me, lied over and over again, and all other behaviour narcissists have.
Because he had never a negative comment, it took me almost a year, to acknowledge myself for what he is…

Still picking up the pieces of my shattered life…

Diana says June 18, 2021


Ich also had a relationship with such a guy. It took me one year to realize, who I was dealing with. Always playing the victim card. A few days ago he blocked me again…the fourth or fifth time. And then I said to myself, you know what? Not this time. So, O sent him a mail as well as a letter. I wanted to be sure, he gets what I have to say. Told him this time I do have something to say. So, I demasked him. Well, his reaction was golden. I cannot describe the way he wrote me, how he behaved, all those words to make me feel so small. But well, you know, we talk to people as we talk to ourselves. For me it was nothing personal. But I did shiver at times. No threats though. Now that was something…If I ever had doubts about him, I don’t have them anymore. 😀

So after all of that I am now convinced they work with smokimg mirrors…when you stop playing their game, they lose all the magic.

I hope this helps anyone suffering from harsh words of narcs, who got exposed?


Dior says May 3, 2021

Have you ever heard of Adobe stock. You’re not that smart…but great at being a bully.

Suresh Thumati says September 23, 2020

I want Information on winning a narcissist without no contact.

Erica says July 8, 2020

The person I’m with is a narcissist when I don’t do one little thing it’s all over he says he’s moving out he’s told me he was going to leave like 20 times but doesn’t go anywhere he’s 50 I’m 39 . I don’t understand why he really doesn’t leave me . I just think he knows everything I do for him and no one else will be that way what do you think

    Charlotte says February 23, 2021

    Unfortunately, we are the ones who need to leave. We cannot rely on them to make that decision. They won’t ever leave if we do. I am in the very beginning stages of leaving my narcissistic Abuser. It is a battle on both ends.

Kim Saeed says June 17, 2020

I used this image through my account with Adobe Stock, which is a service I pay for on a monthly basis and which gives me license to use the image. If you have issues with this image being used, you should contact them. If you are truly the owner of this image, you should already be aware of it being hosted on their platform. Furthermore, if you are not referring to the image on this particular post, then you should send a document that is not macro-enabled, since these often contain viruses.

Alden says May 10, 2020

The love letter is so true – thanjs for writing it up plainly.

And once I realised this was how my ex-friend ‘loved’ me (oh they told me they did things for me out of ‘love’ like telling me they had thought about getting me a present, but not actually getting it, not that it would have mattered because gifts are not my language i.e. they were weeping for validation of their ‘love’), I decided their words and action no longer hold much weight.

She wants her life to be like the movies, so when she looks into my eyes, she is in love with her own reflection. She wants to be my ‘friend’ because of how she thinks my presence serves as one of her ideal actors in the movie that is her life. She thought I would fit the role of her bff, a one way friendship to her of course.

Once she knew that the image reflected in my eyes is not what she desires to see (because I told her) – gone. Zero self-reflection nor desire to better herself. I no longer ‘qualified’ as a suitable actor. Haha! Good riddance.

Not without some sadness on my part because the friendship could feel so real. But in the end, I was just used as a reference so she could copy, and a mirror so she could see herself. Not a friend I want to keep, thank you very much.

inspirational app says May 9, 2020

This website was… how do you say it? Relevant!! Finally I’ve found something
that helped me. Thanks a lot!

Anonymous says March 23, 2020


Shedonna says February 26, 2020

You have to realeyes that being involved with an narc is no thing like being with someone who is not a narc. The sooner you see that everythjng is about them, their is a pattern you get caught up in with them. Before you know it, you have forgiven their faults, had babies by them and years have gon by and now you wish you would have left sooner. Because in most cases, they will never admit they have a problem. EVERYTHING THEY DO IS FOR SOME JUSTIFIABLE REASON. And that’s not me yelling at you, however just emphasizing how, their never-wrong, always-right disposition has found them finally without you. Not that they care. And that the whole points. A real narc may half-@** admit their fault, practically in the same breath taking back any, (or placing all the blame on nouns outside of him/herself) responsibility for the dysfunction in the relationship. Saying they had to end it because they were a victim of your ways and not the other way around. Narcissistic Personality Disorder is said to be uncurable. Cut your losses. Sever the ties! Get out while you’re still sane. These things are bound to happen as you forgive their disrespectful, degrading, discarding cycle of conversational rape. Where they accuse you of not making sense. And time is passing. And you’re further entagling yourself with him/her, with phone service, transportation of sorts, housing, credit commitments, and for the sake of whatever you rush into the commitment, but you take your time getting out, and b4 you know it lots of damage us dun.
“Get out now!”

Tracee Loper mielke says September 14, 2019

U have been dating a narcissist for 18 years and been married to him for 10 years before he left me and his adlut kids for someone new and i am in therpy now and want to heal but i cant get him to divorce me so heal and move on nowing i dont have the means to get rid of him and he has recently has job saying hedoesnt work there so he doesnt have to put on his health insurance.and this way he just keep living this lie he not married and lies about how kids he has and he has no contact with or me he says were his past but wont divorce me to be the mw and kids can there a reason for this? Or does he think this well work out for him in the long run?

    Kiley says March 26, 2020

    Is It Not A Form Of Control Over You? Are You Not Losing Sleep Wondering Why He Does What He Does? Does It Not Cause You Pain?

    Those Are The Reasons/Motives.

Leamber says August 24, 2019

This is 100% the TRUE WORDS OF A NARCISSIST…I just left mine the 9th of july this year…it was a NIGHTMARE…total Dr. Jekyll Mr.Hyde personality

Cass says August 20, 2019

Excellent advice Jo and yes it works, I tried it all myself. Time flies when you get real busy and a good four week vacation will fill your head with so many positive moments – go enjoy life. I had been in an on and off again relationship with my Narc for 25 years and I finally broke free. I made a decision I was going to leave, gave him til the end of the week to reassure me he wasn’t playing me, that we had a future or I have to go. He put me to the test and I never heard from him again for seven years….. until last week! So please, all of you, break free and No Contact means No Contact. No “I’m fine”. Don’t even say “yes” if they ask you something. Block them from your phone and emails and anything else. You will get stronger and you will find real love – enjoy self love, enjoy the freedom most of all that you no longer have to second guess, have blame deflected on you, you no longer feel worthless because they can’t set any of these feelings upon you again. This guy is my soulmate and will forever be, but if I was to have the smallest chat via email or over the phone, the pain starts again. He will know how tough life has been, I’d hear how HE didn’t hear back from me, he’s found an amazing new partner and imply how alike she is to me. He wouldn’t say it, I would just read that because that is what he’s saying. There is a hidden message in everything they say. Trust your gut and mark every one of those comments as a red flag and run. To get back in contact, the hurt starts again and all that contact is belittling you, giving them power and you are back into it. When the next argument arises and it will, you will be devalued and discarded and it’s all your fault. And it will be if you go back. You will kick yourself for thinking his presence will make you happy. Maybe a couple of conversations will be amazing, but don’t let on they are. Don’t settle for scraps when there are people out there who love you just the way you are and want to be with you through good and bad. Narcs are not decent people and I am scared now what this contact means. What is the next message I receive? There will be another. And do not take that as “oh great thanks, he will eventually contact me (in 7, 8, 9, 10 years)”. Nothing great about it. I have been there over and over again – listen up to the people on this blog who know it because they experienced it. He would never leave if you were worthy to him. It doesn’t mean you are worthless – you are a really good person and they know it. They aren’t, so they have to undo you like a fly in a spider web and make you feel as crappy as they do. No man is worth your tears and the one that is will never make you cry.

Sandra says February 3, 2019

So true,although I am still not sure whether mine is a narc or BHD,I am still in love with the fantasy and now reality has hit home.He has pushed me around and even made me get out of the car and walk home,miserable and depressed most of the time ans says the most demeaning cruel thing,he now want us to be just friends and have solo holidays,it goes on and on continual devaluation and yet I am still hooked,like a drug addiction!!!

Kathy says September 24, 2018

I was contacted by the narcissist that I divorced in April. He is dangerous and a terrible human being.

Jo says May 16, 2018

Went no contact 4 months ago after almost 11 years with my Narc. I set these goal for myself:
1. Make a daily plan to keep busy
2. Declutter and clean my home
3. Learn a new skill
4. Get involved in voluntary work
5. Meditate twice daily for at least 15 minutes
So far, so good – but it’s bloody hard work! You are all in my thoughts. Xx

Matthew says May 12, 2018

I’m seeing all this sometimes all the time.

Dee says April 30, 2018

Please tell me what helped you. I am in the same boat. thank you

carole says March 23, 2018

how do I survive Narc mother convinced entire family including my kids I am no good since no contact with her I am very sad

    Cass says August 20, 2019

    Hi Carole. My Mother was Narcissistic also and a couple of years ago disinherited me. (Her favourite flower a Narcissus/Daffodil). My beautiful Dad went before her and she was changing Wills the day he died, even changed his whilst he was alive and got away with it! Little old lady sweet talked the Lawyer. This is how clever they are. That is her prerogative to change hers for sure. Of course she gets Dad’s estate to survive. I don’t mean that. We were promised for years what was going to happen at the end – even split, but no. It has been a few years now and it has ripped me apart and affects my life. Go and seek help. This is her issue, not yours. If you are a really good person, keep being that person, even start volunteering to put good out there to block our her negativity on you or start a small business or craft stall that is totally yours and be proud of you. You won’t change her, so keep the peace, but continue No Contact is my best advice. She did it to me and then came back wanting to talk to me saying “I” haven’t been in touch. I tried and tried and she blocked me out! Our family had never fallen out until Dad died. She started all this (I obeyed her all the time), but looking back, she was like this my whole life. Breaking free from her was a relief and the day she died, I felt nothing at all – I wasn’t relieved, I wasn’t sad. The abuse, mind games, control stopped and my life went on. I have no photos of her in the house, I don’t think of her, I’m clearing out things she gave me, etc. I don’t acknowledge her birthday or anniversary. I block her out and I try to move on. Be strong and do not let anyone undermine or control you. Good luck. It is sad because you love her unconditionally. But you are not a punching bag, so don’t tolerate it.

    Coda says August 25, 2019

    Let your integrity speak for itself! A narcissist will never move on from you until you stop talking to them/ about her to people you know that information will get back to her. Once you stop reacting for good they find a new victim! Protect yourself and your children but be very wise about it. Pray to Jesus Carole. My heart goes out to you.

Terry says March 13, 2018

I’m still trying to get over a 10-year “thing” with a narc woman. It’s very hard. It makes me question what is real and what isn’t. All of the things she said were meaningless, despite me wanting to believe them. I fell for it every time due to my ignorance on this subject. I have gone No Contact with her now for a few months but it’s still very hard. The claws they hook into you are insane. The high you get with them is fantastic.

Unfortunately, once you learn none if it was real, you can’t help but wonder why you ever trusted them in the first place. Why you put up with it all. It’s maddening.

Thank you for your article.

Michael F. Grady says January 15, 2018

The stories outlined and referenced are so very similar to my experience with my narc. Never happy, always thinking of nobody else but themselves. Acting as if the world revolves only around them. They can lie in a New York minute. Twist a story to their advantage as if their the victim, and yet, their the culprit. Never wanting to own any accountability for their behavior, and, always blaming others for their shortcomings.

The cycle of emotional and verbal abuse, the vicious cycle of discard and demeaning of people is atrocious. They can move on as if nothing ever happen and never want to speak on or own the nasty fake people they’ve become. They are Master’s at the art of manipulation. Leave them and never ever go back. They’ll tell you what you want to hear to tart the cycle of abuse all over again when you implement the NO CONTACT. STAY AWAY FROM THEM, THEY MEAN YOU NO GOOD WILL!!

    Teresa says September 23, 2018

    Reading your comment was as if I had written it myself. I hope you are doing well and one day I can truly go no contact. I know it’s an addiction rather than love.

    Shelley Tipler says September 2, 2019


guest says December 26, 2017

Kim, I’ve been reading your emails and writings for about a year. I hit the bottom a few months back and have been at the Choice Point for some time. I am struggling. The pain is so deep. I cannot describe it. I keep seeking closure or caring that I know will never come. But on an emotional level it is so hard to accept that the man I so loved is just an empty shell. The love letter hit hard because I know it is true, but it hurts so very much. To my core.

    Guest says September 23, 2018

    Hi guess, I feel your pain . Feels like I am hitting the bottom also and I am struggling. Affected all aspects of my life. Was discarded and left with our son. Still don’t know how to explain that to him. I think he keeps me going on daily basis but pain is enormous. Just sending you my hugs and hope that things will get better. Truth is that no one will understand the pain unless its experienced on his/her own. Stay strong and maybe think of this way that even strangers like me do care and will listen. Hugs….

    karen Thompkins says May 14, 2020

    Heartbreaking isn’t it? Four years of emotional, verbal, mental and psychological abuse. The silent treatments. The confusion. The never meeting his family or friends… The half truths.. The mind fuckery… The future faking… The list is endless. And they then have the audacity to comment that you have caused irreparable damage during the relationship!
    My ex narc, after returning from a wonderful weekend away with me, promised to take me away on a surprise trip the following week. I never heard or saw him again. Oh, apart from a Dear John at my workplace, He ended our 4 year entanglement over the phone. He attempted a hoover January 2020. Well scripted text message..His final sentence read “I’m not a bad man K”
    My healing is slow and methodical…

Paige says December 12, 2017

Another great one! Thanks for all your support and encouragement. You are doing great service work in this area and you should be proud of how many people you help and inspire every day.

Carol says December 11, 2017

My ex husband to a “T”!

Denise says November 8, 2017

Oh my God, so true.

Bruce says November 6, 2017

My narc was beautiful. Even at sixty five she turned heads. I enjoyed her ways and I know it sounds insane but I could just sit and listen to her talk and watch her eat. However she had a mean streak in her. It was all about her. Nothing else mattered. She was never happy. I could never please her. She would never admit she was wrong and her mood change at the drop of a hat. I’m done with her now. I do miss the good times which were few but not the bad ones. I caution all men that it is fun to have a beauty on your arm but at what cost. The female narc will demean and disrespect you and treat you like dirt and say that you are the mean one. Respect yourself and go “no contact “. They will never let you go. Believe me!

    Carol says December 11, 2017

    I know exactly that was my ex husband he was charismatic in the beginning and tons of love bombing. By the time my second child was born zero affection, intimacy the mask started to fall and he knew that I knew! Suddenly a new supply I was thrown to the wolves

    Fred says August 9, 2018

    Bruce, quite an interesting story. I recognize this sooo much, beauty and charm come with a high price. What do you mean with “they never let you go” ? If you go no contact, it’s done no ?

      Cass says August 20, 2019

      No contact is your control over this, but the Narc will be back. They are so patient like a wild animal waiting to strike. I just got an email last week after 7 years. I really thought he had gone, truly truly thought he had gone.
      but I have days where I feel he’s driving by or just feel his presence sometimes. I am probably right! Do not reply – block them from everything you can. If a letter comes, don’t open it, burn it. If they say “how are you?” Do not reply “good” – nothing – no contact. They may just reel you back in and it all starts again until “you defy them” and you are discarded all over again.

Vanilla Sky – Unreality with the Narcissist - Let Me Reach with Kim Saeed says October 23, 2017

[…] Hoovering – Creating the false illusion that he/she is sorry for their cruelty.  […]

T says September 21, 2017

I have been on and off with my ex for 5 years. I think I am going through a final discard now. She would constantly leave me, make me beg, then come back promising me the world and how I was the love of her life she wanted to get married, have babies etc. I was the love of her life. Now, I am a monster, I was controlling etc. She has a bad cocaine problem, and yes I suppose I did try to control that and get her into rehab. When she was depressed or on a come down, she would agree. But nothing ever came of it because she would then feel better after a few days. We share a dog together and she makes me feel guilty when I don’t want her to come around to see the dog because she doesn’t take care of it full-time. I do all that. Why should she just come and go when she feels like it and I have all the responsibility ?
She’s left again and Ive not heard from her in over a week. Our last conversation she was telling me to leave her alone and how much better off she is without me. Then she blocks me, so I can’t say anything. Then when she feels like it, she unblocks me. She tells me that its usually when she is feeling weak after a cocaine comedown… its all very difficult to accept. I also believe that she goes back to her ex every time i am blocked and vice versa. She will never admit it though. Ive supported her through so much, mentally, emotionally, financially and she doesn’t seem to remember any of it. To her I am just a needy ex which I am sure she is telling all her friends and family. They don’t know half of whats been going on. Twice she’s also been informally diagnosed with Bipolar by 2 different therapists. She posts all sorts of things on Facebook making her seem like she is wealthy , champagne pictures etc and how happy she is. I don’t really understand why its so easy for her to just up and leave. She doesn’t even bother with the dog anymore, which is why I think she’s gone for good this time. Im struggling to get closure. I want her to get in contact, so that I can be the one to finally say , we are done. Bipolar, Addict, Narcissist… who would have thought that this is who she turned out to be ? I know that she lies to everyone in her life. Only now accepting that I was one of them too. Its been a monthly ST recently. One thing makes her angry and she’s blocked me and gone. Then feels low / hungover and she’s back telling me I’m her home etc.. how did this happen? its so sad to think how much time / money I have wasted on this girl. She can’t hold down a job event though she is amazing at what she does and always gets great pay but has never once saved any. Its been a week since our last horrific conversation but I am certain that I will hold onto no contact this time.

    Kim Saeed says September 25, 2017

    Hi T,

    Thank you for stopping by and sharing your experience. Yeah, getting closure is tough, for sure. We must find a way to give it to ourselves. If you find that it’s too much to handle on your own, you may want to consider joining us in The Essential No Contact Bootcamp.

    It has modules for healing and rebuilding and the BEST private forum out there for encouragement and support. You’d love it. Either way, wishing you and your doggie all the best.

    Kim XoXo

    Carol says December 11, 2017

    Mine too he literally dumped me off at a new townhouse with our daughter and said goodbye! This was during the Christmas season, freezing outside and the following weekend he showed up at my door to collect our daughter to run errands with his new supply waiting in his truck in my driveway. I didn’t make a scene, closed the door and broke down in tears! We had been married 21 years and together 24!

Holly says September 19, 2017

Wow!!! That “love letter” got to me. It was like watching the cycles played over and over in my mind of the past 20 years!! The more I read about narcissists, the more I am amazed at what I put up with and how deeply I was manipulated. I do not say this lightly, I wish I could say I saw through him much earlier. However, this is where I am and I accept that I arrived here on my own two feet. The very last section is what got to me. I could not understand why/how he would use the detriment of our relationship to secure another. What woman would fall for that coming from a married man with two small children?? I get it. It honestly blows my mind how charming he can be when he wants, yet so hurtful and destructive when he wants.

Anouska mitt says August 18, 2017

Today after 6weeks.txt.i found a job we could meet to straighten things up. U expressed the thought the man I met is not the one I left. Confirm you had be eloquent enough and hope is nana is better.. Cause I relised his nana health situation was often used as excuse yes cheating.

good bye. Liberating to a degree. Painful none the less. But I know now. I know what it is. I listen I watch but I just see his weakness and, regardless of this, his attempt to appear respectable. Only, now we both know the truth. And looking at him as third party real cemented the pitiful character he is. It was sad but in a different way. Climbed the mountain I, now, can just walk towards the light. I will never be the same person again. I can see now after 4 months, why other ppl kept saying they are a better person because of the N.

I sure learned the importance of boundaries and trust my gut. Always. Better person I don’t know.

The first 2 months were hell and I don t think he will fully leave my life.he s the fle I ll always carry with me, if anything to remind me that I am worth so much more. So much.

Latrisa Shirley says July 24, 2017

I moved to dayton , ohio met a narcassist named quan i am a widow he sought me out . Told me how beautiful i was spent moey on me was their through my grief . He brung sun where their was so much darkness . I new no one in dayton new to the area married for twenty eight years grievieng hard . He worked on me till he boke me . I let him in my home he changed over night became verbally abusive controlling manipulating . he tried to seperate me and my daughter . Made me believe i was stupid let me no he only loves his self . Started punishing me . throwing his best friend up in my face how she was loyal to him . Taking her money spendingit on me . Turning his family on me . Sex was punishment because i put him out . But i wanted him back . When he came bak he hated me and punished me . We talked he told me he would change . I was taking the blme for things i never did .I loved quan deep down in my heart . But now i no it was not love i was sic . He left one night and was missing i was so worried days went by i kept texing . Im worried i love you please call me, are you in jail . He would go into rages when he lived with me so i did not no what happened . I finally get a text i am with kristen now she is loyal i dont need you your full of drama if you text me again i will get you for phone harrassment i will call the cops . It hurt me so bad through out his torture i ws suicidle depressed . I had not been wit another man in twenty eight years . I feel i filed my husband why did he ride me down and sought me out just to destroy me and throw me away . I never did nothing but fallin love with a man who lied to me . who has no lovefor women . we are merly targets to feed him . I pray for my healing from my husbands death and the death of the demon named quan .

    MissTanyaL says January 16, 2018

    WOW Your story was almost identical to mine except I was going through divorce when that demon Narc targeted me. Same thing moved in and almost immediate the Narc mask started slipping. These people and sick and will always fail i life… I just want you to know it was nothing you did wrong and that it didn’t only happen to you… each day gets better for me as long as I remain No Contact with that ugly parasite.. I pray for your and my quick healing-peace and love to you?

Krystal says July 24, 2017

18 years late and I can’t take this any more I do not know how to get away from this nightmare I have 2 daughters who r watching me fall apart .we spilt u 3 Years ago but everyday he breaks me down I have no one my mom was just as bad as he is. I’m down to less than 100 pounds I’m about to lose everything I got and he takes my fight to survive and I have to survive my kids mean more than anything and keeping their home and me being happy. 3 years takes my money my water bill is due and I have no way to pay it and he knows I can afford and reconnect fee. He is sick and will not stop I do not know how to stay away when my daughters and yes me would do anything for him to change. I have had no one he was my mom dad bestfriend uncle grandparent I never had. It’s eating me alive I don’t like this person I became but he breaks me more and more

Stephanie says July 23, 2017

Thank you so much for this. I am seeing that’s it really isn’t me. I definitely have some work on myself I need to do though. This is my first encounter with a narcissist. I’ve been reading about this all morning. All I can say is thank you

    Kim Saeed says August 4, 2017

    Glad to know I’ve helped in some small way, Stephanie.

    Kim XoXO

CreativiTea says July 12, 2017

wonderful post.
all of the way its expressed and conveying true meaning of this relationship dynamic.
John’s eloquence at the end is poetically breathtaking too.

Thank you.

Rebecca Lehman Flynn says April 12, 2017

Hi, I’ve been involved with a covert narcissist sociopath in my small neighborhood. He lied, manipulated, triangulated, gaslighted me. I called out his lies in front of people and came off looking crazy.
The woman whom he triangulated me against reached out and were now friends-acquaintances again.
He tried to make me jealous with a over-weight woman who glares at me. I just ignore it. Like really? That’s the best you can do?
He was at her house that’s up the street from me having a party. The next day he had court date with another woman in the nieghborhood “Poor widow Kim” whom he had an relationship which he denies. He said it was work related. Suing her for $43,000. She asked for a jury trial. He lost. Don’t sue someone who can prove you had an relationship. I kept two years worth of text messages to prove we had a relationship to combat his lies or if he wants to sue me.
I’m a widow too and he’s the nieghborhood handyman.
After he made me look crazy in October 2016, I now have PTSD. Just within the last month I’ve been able to come out of my house riding my bike taking walks and etc. Still a little shaky…
Well, he is now seeing another woman up the street from me. A retired state trooper who is really sweet. But very unattractive, there’s no getting around it. We’re both the same age.
I go to the park next to my house in the morning before work to relax. Well I saw him and her with his dog and her 5 dogs hiking together. It surprised me, thought she was married to the guy she lives with.
Then when he’s off work they meet at the beach and go for long walks. Our nieghborhood has its own beach, we’re on the waterway.
The woman whom he triangulated me against is not happy, because they use to meet and walk their dogs. They live across each other. I told her it is what it is…
I broke no contact because the new girlfriend and I have always been social. I want to tell her the truth about him but won’t, it would make me look crazy and she won’t believe me. I had to acknowledge him, and he I.
Later that week I’m on the beach, and here they come while tending her dogs he stood next to me and small talk. Then yesterday, I ran into her coming back from the park and chatted. Obviously was with him. He and I use to go to that park and made love to each other. I was one of his secrets too!
Then later that day I was heading home from the beach with my bike. Ran into him and his dog and he said Hi Becky, stopped and looked pensive as too who was on the beach. He let me pet his dog, small talk like nothing (what he did to me) ever happened. As I left, here she comes in her truck with her 5 dogs and her mother? We said hi.
First, I care about her, they’re going trough the honeymoon stage and he’s still being secretive. Apparently not going to each other houses, she lives with some guy. I was never allow to go to his house because his neighbors hated me, etc….
Second, I’m watching it play out. She’s going to fall just like the rest and I can’t say anything.
Finally, am I bringing hoovered? I just been able to come out of my house in months and he’s playing mind games while I take the high road.
What do you think?

    Sylvie says May 10, 2017

    Hi…He is still on your mind that much, you really need to go no Contact, he is playing games but your allowing it. I’ve been there , you get stuck into what he is doing instead of focusing on your which is soooo important.

    Carol says December 11, 2017

    Lol I love your description of the jealousy with the overweight woman who glares at you!?????

Does the Narcissist Miss You After No Contact? - Let Me Reach with Kim Saeed says April 6, 2017

[…] 3)      Hoovering – Hoovering presents in many forms.  Mostly, it’s the Narcissist sending little texts, showing up at your door with flowers, coming to you because they’ve had a “life-changing” epiphany where, through some kind of divine intervention, they’ve been shown the pain and sorrow they put you through and promise to change. […]

Diana says February 23, 2017

I left my Narc after finding out about other women and he was stealing from people that he was supposedly doing roofs for. I mean thousands of dollars. He now has stalked and harassed me to no end. I have a protection order but he doesn’t care. He’s above the law and honestly there’s no justice when dealing with these mental idiots. What does he want from me? He obviously has others. His parents, siblings and children have nothing to do with him. I was his hope. I found out two days before I was going to move in with him. He’s evil and I’m miserable,

Anonymous says January 8, 2017

I have been no contact for 2 months. My ex wanted some time to think about what he wanted so I ended it for him. Since he told me I was mean and that’s why he didn’t want us and that I needed to learn how to grow up (to name a few things that have come out of his mouth). Oh let’s not forget he is currently following me on Snapchat but doesn’t look at my snaps. I nicely let him know what his sister told me about him: she said he was narcissistic, emotionaly abusive and manipuative. Haven’t heard from him since but I have been told by many that he will return and when he returns it will be worse because of what I said calling him out??

    ccc says January 31, 2017

    yes do not even tried.

    sylvie says March 2, 2017

    your mean? lol I get that all the time, “your mean to me”, “you talk to me worse then you do to a dog”, “you disrespect me” “you don’t show me any love”…your right I am all those things now as I have put up walls to deal with your shit and your cheating so you know what buddy…screw you…I am above you and all the crap

    Sylvie says May 10, 2017

    Omg, we must be the same person because I’m mean, Im so mean to him, I treat him like a dog, and I also needed to grow up, this is real life ..not a game he tells me. He is tired of my games, so I said enough with the bs I’m worth more then this and I want more then this, I felt stuck and that’s no way to live. Why are you waiting for him to return? This is only going to set you back again and from someone who did it twice, it is worse cuz they know you’ll take it and you end up so depressed and confused.

Lily says December 20, 2016

What an incredible article. I think the hardest part for me now is accepting what he is. Every time he comes back he says how sorry he is, how awful and miserable his life is without me, how he has no direction and no reason to live. And every time I think to myself “a real narcissist would never apologize…would never admit his frailty.” But once I pick him up…remind him of his value…tell him I believe in him and see his strength…its only a matter of days or weeks before he finds a reason to fight and the silent treatment begins. The disappearing act commences.

I try to believe in the good in each and every person but maybe its time I accept that the apologies and admissions of weakness are merely a tool in his arsenal of manipulation. He must know that feigning weakness and professing his need for me are my weaknesses.

Next time…I won’t allow myself to be around to hear or read the pleas. I think its time for total no contact!

    Kim Saeed says December 26, 2016

    You can do it, Lily!

    sylvie says March 2, 2017

    this is why its so important no contact, trust me I fell for it to the first time…then moved in with him and now my self estten is so bad because I have no whre to go to get away like I used to.

Lars says August 4, 2016

Wow thank you this is was my life of the last six years hitting g ever nerve then when I got to the letter … It click this was my relationship … God bless anyone who is dating these gross humans

Robert says July 28, 2016

I don’t really get the difference between someone who’s simply infatuated, someone who’s co-dependent, and someone’s a true narcissist based on that “letter of a narcissist”. A lot of the features look the same.

Really good article, I just wish it contained more psychological research. A lot of online communities are throwing around the term narcissist but they don’t really make an effort to separate it into its appropriate clinical category.

Sometimes when I read the articles, I get paranoid that I’m the empath, or I’m paranoid I’m the narc. I have PTSD from being in a relationship with a narc, which has been clinically diagnosed… but reading these articles can sometimes confuse the hell out of me.

    Anonymous says May 10, 2017

    Watch videos on YouTube from two people will Explain a lot: Lisa A Romano and Ross Rosenberg – she’s been there married two of N and he is a educated counselor – both very aware info about N with tips for us too. (This is my second marriage to one and tired of their nonsense- good luck!).

Ana Paula says July 24, 2016

Thanks Kim for sharing the hoovering video. I thought I lost a gold ring until seven months after discovering in a shop display for sale. My narc always told me it was in the house and even offered help to find. He sold it. But I recovered it. Seven months later. Now he refuses to move out and keep professing to take his stuff out. It’s been six months . Nothing happened. He refuses to talk to me he’s very busy. Nothing changes. Now another gold ring is been missing and he denies it. I want him out but no success so far. I’m learning a lot with you.

    Anonymous says May 10, 2017

    Sorry to say you have to change this choice – change locks move his stuff out which can be dangerous for you (don’t put anything past these N’s)…. or move your stuff out slowly to storage get a UPS address don’t tell anyone what you’re doing especially him – remember to lock down your credit scores to new address once in new place – Get Out! He is not going to leave but when you do change phone number put him on email contact only if you must – learn about No Contact and Run!!!!!!

phantommirage says July 16, 2016

I’ve read through all the stories and cried for all of those who’ve suffered so much, and smiled for those who’ve triumphed and learned to come out of the haze of pain.

All I can hope for w/ my NPD/BPD is that Life serves him a cold dish of karma, and perhaps a nice swift kick right where he needs it, so the he won’t be so obsessed w/ funstuff, or play a person like a toy for a long, long while……and I hope I’ll be around to hear about it.

    Julie says November 18, 2016

    Krama hits back, no worries 🙂

    Julie says November 18, 2016

    Karma hits back, no worries 🙂

      sylvie says March 2, 2017

      But would the Narcs even notice ?? lol

Shadow1976 says July 16, 2016

Imagine being a woman in an extremely religious lifestyle (Amish, Mennonite, etc) where you are taught to be submissive and beneath your husband and men in general and are dealing with narcassism 🙁

Imagine never being able to escape because of the consequences you’d face, and even when you seek help, you’re told by the church that you are at fault for you husband’s behavior, you aren’t being a good wife and doing your duties :/
Imagine how alone you’d feel with no support or resources or acknowledgement that narcassism is a real problem. I know a few of these women and I have been one of the very few shoulders they have to lean on. The torment they endure from narcassism couples with the strength of a very patriarchal religion, you have no idea!

I grew up with narcassism in my family. For the beginning of my adult life that was what I attracted to me. Not intentionally, just when you are child growing up in that, that is all you know and that is your comfort zone, on a nearly subconscious level. It took moving away from home for graduate school to see just how damaged my family was. It took me stepping away from them and living at a greater distance from them, despite loving them unconditionally, to see the madness.

How controlled I was. In personal relationships o began to recognize and see these traits, and slowly over some time, I gained enough experience and insight to walk away before they wove webs. Enough is enough. Even being through what I went through, the things some of my female Amish friends endure is truly horrific.

I can’t imagine living an entire life with no escape or if I tried being brought to submission or outcast from family and friends. The plain people are t so perfect 🙁 my heart aches for what I know and I’m so grateful for my station in life and enjoy that out here in my “English” world, I have means to escape if I need to.

Taniel says January 31, 2016

How do you go no contact if the narcissist is your child’s father? I have been with him for almost 2 years. He cheated on me with multiple people during my pregnancy and after I had my child. I have been going to therapy for the month and will be moving out next month. I’m just wondering how to handle a narcissistic man who has to be in my life due to my child.

    Kim Saeed says January 31, 2016

    Hi Taniel. Thanks for stopping by and sharing. I can relate to your concerns because I share a son with my Ex. Well, the first thing you’ll want to do is make sure you file for custody. Get any documentation together that you can that might prove your Ex isn’t fit to be your child’s primary custodian,which might include any threatening texts and emails, any charges he may have against him for abuse, drugs, or alcohol. If you have a domestic violence center, contact them and let them know you’re being emotionally abused and manipulated and see if they can open a case for you based on the details of your situation. Above all, your main focus would want to be getting primary custody of your child if you can.

    Hope that helps.


      Irena says October 23, 2016

      Hi Kim ,I’ve been with my narcissist for seventeen years two teenagers I have sole custody ,had order of protection ,domestic violence center never helped me I just lost all my marital assets in divorce settlement ,plus I have to pay him off a lot of money that I don’t have he just got a huge settlement from his personal injury case ,can you explain to me why the court let the narcissist to get away with all the lies ,I almost lost my custody because I asked for more child support, I’m so disappointed with the court system for the last four years I’ve been calling all the possible organizations for help all I heard we can’t help you you have to hire a lawyer and I did so my ex called my lawyer even when he had his own my question is how bad you have to be hurt by a narcissist to get help from the system, I work part time and I have to pay off a soon to be a millionaire.

    Anonymous says May 10, 2017

    Email only contact about Only child’s needs issues happenings – cut man out of all your social media by filtering through current accounts to start fresh with health boundaries – work on Your Ideas for Personal Boundaries with Counselor and read as many blogs as you can – do not give up for your child and you – You know what you know about him – get a UPS address it’s a physical address and inform a local Domestic Violence Shelter for ideas, support, advocacy too. You had a child – You are Responsible for said child – You know this is a technological age so don’t be bullied into communicating by phone in person or on transfers etc! Explain to your attorney yes what happened but what you will and won’t allow for your child’s sake – tug of war with a little one will be felt by little one but informing other adults in your circle your support system what you want for your
    Child is best for child and for you in Abuse and CoDependency Recovery – going through similar I am not an expert but serious watch this lady Lisa A Romano (married twice to 2 Narcissists and watch Ross Rosenburg counselor super aware too)…. and smile and seriously hug your little one- you will get you both out and that will be the beginning of your new life without the crazy nonsense! Be safe and contact a Domestic Violence Shelter too, worst thing is when they know you’re going to leave they act all nice loving even apologizing again. “I apologize or I’m sorry” without actions matching for a long time are not true sorries – Cling on to your gut which is Get Out!!! Be Safe 🙂 You’ve made a decision now stick to it for your child’s sake too!!!!!! : )

Jan says January 22, 2016

My Narc dropeed me after an arguement we had and we were together 8 years. I tried to contact him at first with no luck, Then I did no contact for 60 days, nothing. He answered a text once. Then I did no contact again for 90 days. Nothing. It has been 9 months. I think he blocked my texts and phone number, but I never blew either of them up. Just a week ago I sent an email to see if he would meet to talk. He replied, “you need to move on with your life as I have. Us having a conversation will not do either of us any good.” So I would have to say my ex Narc is gone for good. I don’t want to be back in a relationship with him. Just have an adult conversation and end things maturely. BAhahaha! Certainly don’t miss the drama. He is a high functioning alcoholic as well and takes prescription Adderall and Cymbalta. I have learned SO much.

    Kim Saeed says January 29, 2016

    Hi Jan, thanks for sharing your experience. Regarding wanting to have an adult conversation and end things maturely, that typically doesn’t happen. I understand where you’re coming from, but the frustrating truth is that each time you reach out to him it gives him validation that he is still on your mind and he derives great enjoyment from having the opportunity to tell you that “it’s over”.

    You mentioned that you believe he has blocked you, but if I were in your shoes, I would make sure that I had blocked him from all forms of communication. Even though it’s been 9 months, the fact that you reached out to him a week ago probably makes him think you still have hopes of reconciliation, so it’s quite possible that he could pop back onto the scene at some point in the future by virtue of your still trying to make contact after so long.

    Next time you have the urge to reach out, it’s probably a good idea to write him an email or hand-written letter, but then don’t send it. That would help you work out your feelings without losing your dignity in regards to giving him the chance to make you feel rejected again. Wishing you all the best.

    Burned twice says February 1, 2016

    He will be back Jan, true narcs always come back. Trust me. Block him and move on. Get help if you need to. He will never change, he’s not capable. Trust me. 🙂

      Jan B says February 2, 2016

      I doubt it seriously, but thanks for the input. He blocked ME from texting and calling first! I do have him blocked. He won’t find better, but I won’t be around to find out!

wxlog says December 9, 2015

about how beautiful things were, how intense, how storybook, what a couple we were, and how you gradually, inexplicably, painfully, bit by bit, disappeared…..

goodness me.
i can laugh were it not for all the lines of heartache i carry.

NoNarcForMiles says October 8, 2015

Thanks for this great article and the comments of others! I enjoyed “A Narcissist’s Love Letter”.

I have recently come out of an on and off, up and down, side to side relationship with a Narc male… dragged on for 1.5 years.
Not long to some of you poor souls above, but boy what an experience for a 23yr old! I never thought a male so complicated could exist. Someone so incredibly impossible!

Even though it’s recently ended, he has tried to regain contact, to which I originally thought he must want control over me again. Of course there’s the comments that his life is way better than mine, slotting in sly remarks, but trying to maintain the perfect façade that he is untouchable and the ‘dream partner’ girls drool over… That he truly still loves and cares for me laying on the oozing charm and sympathy tears, wanting only friendship. The cycle begins again.
As if to say the 2 months of no contact has made me forget all of his nasty words, actions, ‘caring’ (manipulating) ploys – and that of his mother’s too – where I should join him in viewing the world with rose colored glasses and ignore the cloud above my head.

Despite it has be very hard at times, I believe the best thing is to take all abusive comments and treatments (in such a short space of time I have encountered a lot of those!), immature accusations, sugar coated romantic words, love bombing gestures, open ended promises and the rest as a grain of salt. Telling him he’s a Narc would only gets his back up and make him attack like a snake. The problem is they can never view themselves objectively, so your efforts are fruitless.

Very difficult, but worthwhile. After all he loved the idea of you, complimenting his life… he never loved you for you.

I wish you all well in finding your inner peace! 🙂

    Lisa says December 18, 2015

    I left my ex narc week ago and i keep reading about how they will try to win you back. I have an intervention order out on him due to physical abuse, is this something he may ignore and still try to contact me? I’m not healed and am still trying to get my head around the fact our entire relationship was a lie.

      exnarclover says January 30, 2016

      Hi lisa. I have to orders on my ex narcissist and he has come back. He is above and smarter than everyone. Good luck. Stay strong.

How Can I Be Sure He’s a Narcissist? | Let Me Reach with Kim Saeed says September 30, 2015

[…] committed?)  He may give the appearance of having changed, but those incidents are simply hoovering attempts to hook you back into the […]

Sana says September 28, 2015

I am a 30 year old widow….was in a relationship with a person for 2 months……he was very smart, educated, welathy and single……..but have had 2 previous relationships in which both the girls refused him according to him…he was one of my aunties friend….when my aunty spoke to him regarding me he said yes he would talk to me and said i want a perfect girl…..when we started talking he was very nice…….he praised me….said i am perfect for him….gave me so much of time and importance……..though we were in different countries and haven’t seen each other yet he committed to me……….he always said i won’t find a guy like him……he have worked so hard to achieve all this……he have expenseive watches……i do shopping from london…….my family is the best……….we go on tours very often…..very proud of his looks and body……always brag about how good he and his family is………after 3 weeks i started finding changes in him…….he gets irritaed with me and yells at meon minor things like if i ask”are you tired”……started avoiding me……was controlling the relationship in a way that we would talk when he have time….and whatever he wants to talk about………..he would say he is the boss…….doesn’t show interest if I ask him to skpye or for any other thing………when cannot call me makes excuses like i forgot my phone somewhere…… day i teased him that i saw someone who was really very nice……..he abused me, yelled at me, compared this situation to his previous relationship and hung up…….i apologized but still he called and said i accepeted you even though you have a past…..and yelled at me……..then he was just sending me one or two messages each day….then he stopped texting me and gave me a silent behavior for one month….i begged him even then he didn’t responded………then i texted him and broke up with him…….he said he would call me after two days and give me a reply……I said i don’t want to talk to you anymore….he replied he gave me love and respect and I ruined everything…..then called my aunty and said bad things about me………I still love him and wish he would come back……if he comes back….should I accepthim or not?

    Mona says January 20, 2018


    No do not accept him back. Block him from texting, calling, email, FB. you are worthy and deserving of true love, attention, affection, respect and admiration. He has given you NOTHING and is just TAKING. Focus on healing and getting physically and mentally healthy to avoid any future N’s. {{HUGS}}

Patricia says September 14, 2015

I have been with a narc or sociopath, I am still learning the subtlety of personality disorders. I see that he runs with other narcs, and victims like me. It has been 13 years? Why so long?? I married an alcoholic whom didn’t stay in recovery. I went from the frying pan to the fire!! Funny thing is I told therapist he picked to”help us” that I wanted out but was afraid. When I was told ten years ago I had brain tumor over the phone I was on my way to therapy. I told him that I was sick. I told him he had to go. He didn’t move hug me or clinch. The therapist that was to support me said ,”you need him. He can’t go”. Trust me,in hind sight he leaving would hav been the best of pa be. Instead he squeezed qll heirlooms, I hey, and family outborvm blurs. My neighbor to this day believe he left me to die after being ain a every. My neighbors helped and got mevtonhospiral. The was hallucinating, so very confused. I had full custody of my children….I couldn’t recover from the damages.
He is gone. The illness ot causes tumors has been back for 10 months.New and long gone with the other woman, I am not part of his circle of friends and family. I am the ho, bitch…I am not getting any help and find it very hard to ask for help. I have no friends lef..who would help any ways. My own adult children are invisible. I don’t want to take the chemo. I don’t believe I have a great future and ith leins o my house bcuz he wouldn’t work and I wasbdisqbled. We maxed out my credit. Too weak I hqd creditcards with his name. I need the help and pushed the other friends faraway. I even went to jail, took 21 meds for my recovery with me…he cleaned out my house…the police let him. Domestic Violence Advocate didn’t help. I signed away rught to sue the city…and had a record of spousal abuse. It was self d fense. My bruises didn’t show for two days. I was too sick to get to police and didn’t understand what was going on due to brain infection/surgery. So from this point onvten years ago til now had has been I’m control. He now has someone else. My tumors are back, and there are more than before. I seriously don’t have any reason to hope my family or friends will return. Who blames them? Not me. I have nothing to offer…

M says September 3, 2015

I came across this at a time where I so desperately needed it. My ex husband and I had been together for 14 years, we married on our 7 year anniversary. We met at the very beginning of a pregnancy I had with another man who turned out to be a pathological liar. My ex accepted this and was viewed as a saint by my family. He could do no wrong, he was that man that came in and “saved me” “loved me” When my daughter was born he was loving and very accepting, this lasted for the first 6-7 months. He started distancing himself from me and going out late with friends, mostly girls.He withheld sex fro me often, to the point that we would have sex once every other month or 2 at most. He withheld his banking information from me, but needed access to mine. His ex girlfriend would always be calling him and inviting him places such as the lake or parties. I expressed my discomfort, and he got very upset and said I was being crazy, she was his friend. Now, I feel that if one is to be a friend, that they might want to extend their friendship to me as well. Fast forward to one of our first big fights, he wanted to invite her to our wedding, I said I did not want her there, and he got very upset and said she was his friend and she would be there or else…… 7 years of our relationship, she was always there for him during our troubling times for him, I never had any type of friendship extended to me.This was the beginning of unforeseen trouble. The problems between us also caused him to pull away from my daughter who had only known him since her birth, after our marriage and we all came to live together their relationship crumbled as well, come the first birth of our 2 daughters together their relationship had completely dissolved. My oldest being 9 at the time would hug him and say she loved him and would get a quick pat of disgust with no love returned. Our problems escalated. He began finding hobbies and interests that would allow him to escape from the home, friends would call for help and there he would run. He began making friends unknown to me and did not include me on outings. Couples would be present, but still no invitation came my way. He started working wit friends in a MLM type setting which would take him to shows and took him to Sturgis, I later found out the woman he complained of the whole entire trip stayed with him and 2 others in a trailer, her clothing consisted of ass-less chaps and artistic paint for her breasts. Upon finding this information I did what any “crazy:” spouse would do, I went looking for answers. What did i find? Private messages sent over Facebook included some pictures she wanted to make sure his wife would never see of him taking body shots off of half naked woman, and pictures if the two of them together. There was no intimate way of the two of them in the pictures, but she also emailed him how fun it would be to get a hotel room together in Daytona for an upcoming show. I was upset and I confronted him. His response: It is nothing, you are absolutely crazy, we just were having a good time. What was I suppose to do? Not enjoy myself? He also stated that if i were to bring it up again he would divorce me, because of how low I made him feel was the worst pain he has ever felt. I was scared, i became sick, lost a lot of my hair and quickly fell away from all social contact with anyone. I became recluse. There were a couple of woman that would come in and out of is life as a close friend to him. We separated for 7 months and he befriended a woman I later found out he was spending tiime with her at her home. A mutual friend of mine and hers had unknowingly stated she was having a fling with a married man with 2 girls who was leaving his wife. To this day h will not admit this, I have even exchanged emails and texts with the woman who he had the affair with. She stated to me she had know idea what the situation was, but when she found out she was upset and removed herself from the situation. She told me the very same thing happened to her and she could not make herself forgive after this, my ex says she is full of shit, because he went to her for advice on marriage and she obviously had different intentions. Another one ruined our marriage. They worked together, worked out together text upon waking and until it was time for bed. His phone would be carried into the shower and restroom at all times and turned off at night. I couldn’t handle this so I blew up, he left me the second time over this woman, we divorced that year, he said he had fallen out of love with me because I had become this crazy non trusting woman, and I had hurt him to the poin that something had snapped inside. Present day he has come crying back to me wanting to work on things I have given in twice and found that after a couple weeks of my return his attempt to make things right dwindled and began to fall into the same pattern. We have two children together and he is a Deputy, his days with the girls are drop ins. I dont know how to be fair to my girls and to myself in this situation. His schedule does not allow for consistency.I apologize for the length and the mess that this submitted story is, but may I thank you for having this and giving me a voice and a way to air this. There is so much more I could share but I know this has already gone on.


Jeannie says July 17, 2015

I am so glad I found this blog! I too had been in a relationship with a narc for 2 1/2 years. Everything was great in the beginning, almost too good to be true (I should have noticed the red flags then!). In the last year, he started being physically, emotionally, financially and even spiritually abusive. Something told me to start taking pictures of my bruises because no one would ever believe he would do something like this so that’s what I did. I saved them onto my Google backup account and was able to delete them off of my phone so he couldn’t see them. Three weeks ago, we had a huge fight, which turned physical. He actually hit me with a bag of garbage and then dumped the garbage over all of my belongings (which I was trying to get together at the time to physically leave.) After he hit me with the garbage, I guess I reacted with instinct and hit him. He then dragged me by the hair of my head out of our home and locked me out. I was hysterical and I called the police so they could help me get my belongings. The police came and he flat out lied and omitted the part about him hitting me, only told them I hit him, and they ended up taking ME to jail for battery because at some point between me calling the police and them showing up there, HE scratched his own face and told them I did that when I hit him. Guess it didn’t matter to the police that I had marks all over my body and I was actually bleeding on my arm. Now I have these legal troubles. The judge issued a no-contact order but he has been calling/texting my friend where I am staying, making demands or he is going to tell the state attorney this, that or the other. I decided I had enough, and went and filed for a restraining order for dating violence. The judge gave us a court date for a couple of weeks (figure that one out?!!) and we can both tell our sides to the story. A few days after the restraining order hearing, I have my court date for the battery charge, which I am hoping will be dismissed due to the fact that I have pictures of abuse from last year. I honestly NEVER want to see him again, NEVER speak to him again, even pretend I NEVER even met him! That last part may not be healthy, but that’s where I am now. I will NEVER give him the opportunity to jam me up again by his manipulative lies. I have learned so much by reading about NPD, sociopaths, etc., and I am grateful to know I am not the “crazy” one, even though I feel badly that other people have had to go through the same things!

    Josi says October 12, 2015

    On the night i realized i had been duped, deceived and manipulated for years, i had discovered pornography in his gym bag…subsequent to this raw finding, i had wondered why he spent so many hours in the gym? or wherever he was getting his rocks off…that i couldn’t tell you…well, admittedly…i flew into a rage and saw red…that night as he slept, i decidedly, without words, wanted to express to him my new found discovery of his hidden true colors by taking a large Vaseline Jar to his yummy treasures he’d been enjoying…bc he certainly wasn’t enjoying me…i put on a glove and swabbed it with a huge goop of the greasy mixture and smeared it all over the inside of this gym bag…You might be saying to yourself, that was a little high-schoolish and immature and irresponsible, well maybe but I suppose i had reached a point of now return and this was my breaking point after years of abuse…but in hindsight, he could’ve killed me for pulling a stunt like that…I will never forget the 5am reaction while i lay motionless and breathless in my bed…i heard him rise, get ready for his ritualistic morning routine for getting to the gym, the sound of movement became less vague, more pronounced…then under-your-breath slurs she’s a bitch…heavy foot-steps, then a crash thru my locked bedroom door…grabbed me out of my bed and thru me against the wall…took both hands and smashed everything on my bureau mirrored vanity…glass everywhere…then looked me straight in the eye with his hands tightened around my neck and announces….”your outta here”…heavy abuse followed this incident which was planned and premeditated in getting me evicted from my home we shared even so far as to accuse my mental state, which i have to admit was affected by this man’s abuse by pushing me past my limits which is what would happen to any sane person at the hands of a NARC like this…not long after this occurred he set me up and had police arrest me under the guise i was a harm to myself and my child which he used as leverage and weaponry to execute his plan…how sick someone could do this to another human being is beyond me while never being able to admit it is himself that is the damaging element in this volatile relationship, all along! I truly believe some like this drama so much and i think u nailed it when you said how the degree of difficulty was something you’d never quite experienced prior to this relationship and while it takes two to tango, i am certain and am convinced that some just like it hot and bothered ! chaotic and out of order…Thank God i was one of the lucky ones…I survived !

Mila says July 3, 2015

I am going through a divorce right now because my husband met another girl at his job. This was just about a month and a half ago. He met her and things scalated quickly to the point he is pretty much leaving me and our 3 year old. He still wants to see our son and have joint custody but he is so sure that things between us are over because he says I am crazy and abusive. He says I put him down and I don’t trust him. He says he’s happy with the new girl and wants to remain that way. I don’t know if he is a psychopath or a narcissist but his past seem to be respecting all over again. He was married before, and for what he tells me he left his ex wife because he was bored and she was “whiny”, she didn’t like to do anything, etc… He also told me he had an affair with his (then) best friends wife for 3 months. And now that I put all the pieces together, I am pretty sure he left his xwife when he started having an affair with that woman. The time line fits the puzzle. He left his wife in May and by June he was already having the affair ( which im assuming he pursued the other woman months before and when she finally agreed, he left his x wife). I was 20 back then, I didn’t really pay much attention to that, I thought it was a mistake he had made and nothing more. Come to find out that he hasn’t changed not was it a mistake. He knew what he was doing and he did it again. throughout our relationship, I have caught him talking to other girls on Craigslist (several girls for about 3 months), he tried to take a picture of my friends underskirt under the table when she came to visit me and our son when he was first born. He talked and messaged 3 girls from his job continuously in the consecutive years. Then he sent a picture of his dick to one of my best friends and he said it had been an accident. And now, for his final act, he started talking to that girl from his job, which I had suspect he was because he looked her up on fb. But quicklyndenied it, and then, bam! It so happens that shes the one he’s leaving me for. He lies about his past, even when I know things, he still lies. He lies about the present, he tried to make me think I was crazy about the people he talked to. I don’t know if he is truly a narcissist or a psychopath but he sure has those lying traits. He’s really nice and sweet when he wanted to be, but now, is like a completely difference person took over him. His cold and indifferent. He constantly tells me he’s happy with that other girl and that he hadn’t been happy in a long time but now with her, he is. Thank god I got a new job that it will provide for me and my son to move out, otherwise I would have been screwed. He wants me out and he didn’t care that I couldn’t afford anything. He’s only thinking about her and himself. 🙁 I’ve come to accept he will neve change and that he will never ever come back to me ( not even to apologize for the hell he’s making me go throught and affecting our son too). I would be willing to bet anything that that girl he’s talking to, will soon be me. And the story will repeat again, maybe she’ll catch him and get out instead of staying like I did for 4 years. I still secretly hope he comes back just so I have the pleasure of saying no! He knew that one day I was going to leave him, I told him a few times in fights that one day I was gonna go. But he beat me to it!! He left me for someone else. He fell in love with her in a month or so, just like he did with the past woman and his first marriage and when it happened with me. Go figure.

Josi says July 2, 2015

What a blessing to have found this site….I was under the spell of a narc for about 10yrs….everything I knew and loved about myself was destroyed by this Man. Once a strong vivacious Women, now stricken-ed with various illness’ after being pressed under the thumb for so long…I didn’t figure it out until he had already stolen so much. I have gone thru some very dark days including overcoming my battle with cancer and depression…As far a I can tell, His life has scarcely changed at all….Thank you for reaching out! Josi

    Kim Saeed says July 3, 2015

    Thank you for sharing your experience, Josi. It’s true, this kind of abuse does indeed cause very real physical symptoms. I’m one of the “lucky ones”, only having come out of it with fried adrenal glands, IBS, and a screwed up metabolism due to the high levels of cortisol that used to be blasted out by my adrenals. I’m sorry for what you went through. I hope you’ve found yourself a good therapist and now take great care of yourself.

Barb says June 10, 2015

Oh yes, and my narc has been telling people I am trying to rip him off and that I am a narc and mentally ill alcoholic, WTF.

Too disturbing!!!

Barb says June 10, 2015

Hi Kim,

I left my relationship and moved to another state to escape my situation.

My son and I are returning to home town due to many factors.

Since my ex has found out, I have had him slandering my name to mutual friends. Also a person who I do not know personally contacted me and told me I was brave to return. I said “what is there to be scared of”. She said, “you know he is with a new lafy with kids lol”. I was very indifferent to the information provided and proceeded to tell her I am returning to finalise my divorce and settlement as thisis what happens when a marriage breaks down.

My ex was with another woman last year who apparently was his best friend. She broke up with him after 5 months. There has been no evidence of slander or of him being in another relationship, however, people whi I do not know are quite freely infirming me if this free information after the fact of confirmation of return.

Advice please, and why now feel the need to tell me or try warn me off??

    Kim Saeed says June 13, 2015

    Barb, if you truly need to go back to your hometown, then try not to bother yourself with what your Ex and other people might be saying. Let them live their small lives while you carry on with complete indifference.

    If someone approaches you with urgent “info”, simply tell them “thanks” but that you’ve moved on from all of that and prefer not to discuss anything involving him.

michelle newit says June 2, 2015

Well after reading these messages.. I have realised that I had The Narcs guy..He appeared on fb.. freinded and went all out to say he adored me etc.. then on to online erotica..bdsm ..he was coming to me in uk.. and what an amazing life we will have for years..I was so deeply in love ..he was the drug I had always wanted and boy he knew it..Then after online erotica no messages for a week or 2..the crunch came when I went to NYC..he was coming he could not wait for it.. yep guess what he never came to me..he went to local bar for the night.. he told people he was scared of I think he did not want me to see the real him..and yes I found out he had other ff in waiting.. after 4 months of hell. I am slowly coming back to if there is a guy with initials jfp from monroe county ..give him a very wide berth.. I am shocked at myself..I am savvy.. but his lies and deception shone through and good luck to his new GF ..he wants women with high profiles to further himself.. and I had many contacts.maybe getting so distraught and phoning his Mom was not a good idea.. but hey he said he had his own home yes lies lies lies.. never ending…

brooke says May 22, 2015

I have a question. My ex was a narcissistic to a T. A couple times I did self harm myself and he would take away my scissors and keep them and tend to my wounds. Wouldn’t he get job out of this, instead of keeping me away from it?

    Kim Saeed says May 23, 2015

    Brooke, he does that to keep you reliant on him. He inflicts severe emotional trauma, and then swoops in like some kind of “savior” when you react. I would recommend your getting counseling and contacting the suicide hotline at:,d.aWw

    They might be able to help you with healing resources, and will certainly be able to help with your tendencies to self-harm.

      Barb says June 10, 2015

      My ex too started telling people I am a Narc after me telling him he has Narc tendencies and showed him information on Narcs. He was livid and proceeded to tell me he was done, that’s it etc. So I fled to clear my head, get all the support legal and otherwise, and am now returning to finslise this. He has tried everything to stop my return. Sad really. Yet friends are telling me they have never seen him happier. CRAZY TOWN!!!!!

        Cass says August 20, 2019

        They are very good at “deflecting” it back on you. Telling them they are a Narc does nothing but enrage them. I read somewhere if they agreed to help, it would take over 10 years to truly fix, but because they think they are God or better than everyone else, they don’t continue the sessions and the cycle continues. They end up making the shrink question themselves and they are then their victim! And they are not happy in their new life. I thought that, but no – just new supply and they will get it too eventually. They are charmers, so so charming, we love them to bits, but they are so miserable inside. I’ve seen it. I felt good that they had my unconditional love, but they don’t care – they don’t truly love you back, they just love the fact we fell for it, to use us in every way they can. And they can because we let them.

John of Narc says March 25, 2015

I see very little on discussion boards about gay male narcissists, but they are also out there. And maybe more so as they might be subjected to childhood trauma for being devalued as effeminate, and because men can more eerily reflect back the narc’s ultimate self-love they are seeking (as the love letter above captures well). I was virtually approached — and aggressively followed-up with — by a guy when visiting another city. Idolized for a period of a few weeks. I would say the attention and looks were the main thing that drew me in, but really it was a very similar sense of humor and articulate manner of speaking. In hindsight there were so many odd things about his behavior and how he described his life (practically no interest in anything about my real life), but I also like eccentric, shy people and a bit of a dark side. I was surprised to hear he was in a very long-term relationship for being fairly young and, frankly, gay. Little did I know his ex was a codependent strung along for nearly a decade. Anyway I finally decided to see if this connection was for real (yes I know internet trolls exist, so I expedited meeting him), and before deciding to share any more information to a guy I had never met. After a nice, balanced visit to his city for a few days, I returned home to relate to a very different person. It was like his self had fractured (hindsight’s 20/20)! I think I triggered something during my visit that was seen as critical of him. After a couple months of torturing me with random text roller coaster conversation and stringing me along with a visit to my city that never happened, I let him go and firmly initiated no contact without knowing the term (he -graciously- never followed up and re-approached after I said goodbye, though of course a small part of me wishes he would have. To validate my “investment.”). A few months later I stumbled upon narcissism online, and all the behavior fell into place. I felt like I was a character in my own plot-twist movie. A part of me is disgusted by him, and a part of me is fascinated by the mirroring and gas lighting. I suppose he was falling in his version of love, but I’ll never know for sure. So many unknowns I could reach out and ask, but I’d never trust a word from his mouth as genuine. I mourn the person he could have been if his life started over in a different family. He said almost nothing about his childhood, and seemed to have no sentimental memory of anything. I would still like to offer friendship (as I tried for one month), but know that’s a one-sided street and really not fair to people I date. And not fair to myself. I will always have the “best” side of him in my memories, so I honor that and try to be at peace with the rest. I feel he came into my life to teach me something, and ultimately broadened my compassion for others. So many things about human behavior have come into sharp focus for me, and it caused me to take a major step back before proceeding to date others. It could have taken years if this episode wasn’t so intense. Facades, smokes, masks and mirrors aside, I feel “my narc” and I have a lot in common that can’t be enjoyed because of his cruelty and my ultimate “discard” of him — which in hindsight must have been a fairly traumatic thing for him. If there is fate, it has taught me to check my own energy and try to be as positive, or at least neutral, as I can in social situations. To try to avoid manipulating situations for my sole benefit and playing on people’s weaknesses, which I conceded I’m fairly good at but no narc master. I wouldn’t say he destroyed my faith in love, but he definitely shook it and I’m even a more guarded gay man now (as if so many of us aren’t guarded and insecure enough).

Patricia Rogerson says March 22, 2015

My husband thinks I’m a nascacist and even tho I have not been diagnosed how are some ways I can tell if I am or not

    Kim Saeed says March 22, 2015

    Patricia, the very fact that you’re concerned you “might be a Narcissist” is proof that you’re not. By the way, most Narcissistic partners accuse their targets of abuse (in this case, you) of being one. It’s simply to make you doubt your judgment and make you wonder about your behaviors, which conveniently changes your focus from what HE’S doing.

Jason says March 20, 2015

I haven’t commented on this board in a while. But i want to give an update to “going no contact” with my Narcissistic Ex girlfriend. Im proud to say it worked, i blocked her on social media, blocked her phone number and deleted her from my life, that was 6 months ago. I can say that it was initially hard, but once you reclaim happiness in yourself and your own life, you realize how much better off you are. Today was the first day i realized that the “love” i had for her is gone. I found out through the grape vine of mutual friends that she was getting engaged, some kind of arranged marriage i can only assume. Im not going to lie, for the first time in a long time, i actually felt that “love” and “heartbreak” feeling when thinking about never seeing and talking to her again. But i swiftly reminded myself of why i went no-contact to begin with. Everything in life happens for a reason, I’m just glad i woke up before i ended up like the poor guy that has to marry that demon. I can’t thank God enough for helping me find the way out of the darkness. Id like to thank this message board also, without going no-contact id likely be floating in the nothingness that is a relationship with a Narc. So to all of you who are struggling, there is hope, there is a way out of the dark, over time you begin to love yourself more and you will see the light. These Narcs hold power over you only if you let them. So please go no-contact and set yourself free, i am living proof that it works, even 6 months after i felt little sorrow in knowing she was getting engaged. Wake up and be true to yourself! Thanks everyone, and keep fighting the good fight!

Jamie says March 11, 2015

So, I’ve done a lot of reading and digging to figure out what my ex common law was. So many people told me they felt that he had a personality disorder. I started reading up sociopaths and narcissist and it led me to here.

This man I’ve known since I was 13, so 16 years now. We were together for 4 1/2 yrs. this man was my world, my everything and I did absolutely everything for him. He ever felt down, I was there to encourage him, to give him the confidence to do whatever it is he wanted. He came from a rough back ground and I tried to show him light in life, you know those movies when you see the guy or girl that’s a player and is doing all these things and that one person comes along and changes their life and ways because they fall in love? Well, that’s what I thought I would be. However, he was always emotionally putting me down, calling me stupid or crazy, or that my way of thinking was crazy. That I seemed to have bipolar and need help. Other then that we were alright. He left me once for a week about year and some ago and came back. He had two giant hickies on his neck, told me some girl bit him and he pushed her away and she did it on the other side and he eventually told her to F off. Funny enough, that story I truly do not believe period. But, I took him back, through out our relationship he seemed so desperate for female attention, massive amounts of porn, talking about sex with girls, behind my back, secrets and lies that are now coming to shine. Him and I have a son who will be three tomorrow. He took on my other three kids from previous marriage.

So, back in January my best friend and I were inseparable and she was always at my house or is there…. Eventually, I started to just get a gut feeling that Ah something was forming between them. It’s hard to explain little signs, like him not sitting on couch with me, but with her. Ah, just whispering, or secretive etc. So end of January I eventually snapped and said I’m uncomfortable with this, I don’t like it. He said I was thinking stupid and that there was nothing there… Next thing you know he ended it with me, totally ended it. I was devastated… But, funny enough guess where he moved too? Her house. So for four weeks, it was the first week I don’t want you, next week he did, vice versa. He was cruel the first week, he was just heartless. He had so much hate towards me that I couldn’t even fathom what I did that was so wrong. He said that even though he stays there, he sleeps on her couch and its a place to stay. There is nothing going on. Anyway family day he came by to see kids, once they went to bed he sits down and my three yr old is sitting there and he says do you know why I came? I said to see the kids? He said no I came to kill you, I was like what? He’s like yah last few weeks I’ve fantasized about it. The look in his eyes I will never forget, they were dark piercing and nothing no emotion. I said well if your going to kill me, then do it. He’s like you won’t fight? I said nope, I will not give you that satisfaction. He’s like so you don’t care about the kids? I said I do, but I won’t let you have that satisfaction of wAtching me fight. He then said he didn’t plan to kill me he just wanted to see my reaction. Then went on to state that if any man came near me he’d dismember them and bury them. He left…

He texted saying he was glad he got to see me and for the most part enjoyed his time. I told him to F off and all hope I ever had for him was done. That I was done. He begged for me to talk to him and not loose hope, promised it would never happen again and I ignored him. Next day he calls at 6:50 am and woke me up, didn’t even look I answered. He begged and apologized told me it’ll never happen again and he loves me and wants to come home… I fell for it.

He came back home slowly moved his stuff back in the span of two days told my “best” friend a lie on where he was going. We were all so excited to have him back. But, then he was back. I had to get his food on a plate, if I didn’t he wasn’t happy. He was emotionally and verbally abuse telling me to shut up, the world would be a better place if I couldn’t talk. Putting down all the positives I was doing. He became sexually abusive. He thought it was funny when he wrapped his legs around me neck and squeezed and I started to try and get him to stop, slapping my breast over and over until it had red dots all over it for days. Adding girls on fb, the porn everything. It lasted a week and I kicked him out. I got the silent treatment for a week.. Then he texted wanting to know if I still loved him because he was lost and scared and alone and didn’t have his guiding light anymore. So I met with him on Monday. He said he wants to try “dating” and see if we work that way and live apart, because if he moves in and it doesn’t and then moves out again it’ll be hard on kids etc. I caught him once again lying about a girl and still does. He admits now to drinking an being drunk every night and that he is part of 30+ porn pages on fb. This is who he is and this is what I get kind of thing.

He seems to enjoy freedom, but why hold onto me at same time? I’m so confused. How can you say you love someone and do these things

    Kim Saeed says March 13, 2015

    Jamie, if I were in your shoes, I would file a restraining order, citing the information you shared here. If he made these threatening statements, you never know if he will make good on them. You and your children could be in grave danger.

    Aside from that, he seems to have all the blue-print traits of a Narcissist and it’s very unlikely things will EVER improve. His suggestion of “dating” and trying to make it work is simply a way for him to drop by your place when he wants, yet continue his prowl for partners. It’s another of their classic manipulations.

      Jamie says March 13, 2015

      I filed police report the day I kicked him out. He told police that he did threaten to kill me in the heat of an argument and that I did it too and Denied everything else ! So, when the cops called they said unfortunately they couldn’t charge him because he now is alleging I theeatened too. I was devastated because Id never tell him Id want to kill him EVER!!! Domestic violence unit contacted me the next day and said that they believed me and told me to get an emergency protection order and he feels my ex is more passive aggressive and gets off on reactions, that he would manipulate from the outside.
      I went to court house for EPO and they couldn’t do it, because he was silent for a week and wasn’t threatening me etc. He plays the system well.
      I decided to allow him to see our son yesterday because it was his bday. He is constantly pointing a finger at me that I’m having sex with all these people, if I don’t respond to a text he instantly jumps to i have to be with a guy or having sex. My gf wants to go for dinner and he doesn’t like it and doesn’t want me to go. He never asks how is son is doing and apparently loves him so much and thinks about him all the time. Only uses him when it’s convienant for him.
      yesterday said that he didn’t want me to agree to living apart and it was a mind game and he said it was exactly what it was and that I just jumped right on board. Then says, I’m going to look into one bedroom appartments and that he just wants to make sure we can work out before we move in ETc. It’s one big mind game. I caught him lying about another girl again, my best friend that he’s living with he left me and went right to her house, I’m assiming it’s not innocent like they say is it?

Anonymous says March 10, 2015

How do you get someone who keeps calling your number while you NEVER answer it to leave you alone?

    Kim Saeed says March 10, 2015

    Have you tried to block their number?

Anonymous says March 3, 2015

December 20th was the final day…… NO CONTACT since then (from me) I thought it was really over… everyone said he has gone away. Today, he showed up at my front door. I called the police. Finally it is on record. He is cluster B…. NPD, Antisocial BPD, etc etc. He has never been violent, only emotionally and psychologically abusive. He told the police that he is “done”… whatever that means. My question is: from someone who has never exhibited violent tendencies, but is clearly NPD and Antisocial personality disorder…… should I be concerned for my safety from here on in? Is he really “done”? Could the police involvement push him over the edge? He will be charged with trespassing if he is ever on my property again. The next step is restraining order. Please tell me the stories. I won’t be scared… I need to know if someone who is not violent or have never exhibited violent tendencies, but is clearly PD in cluster format – can they be sent over the edge? Should I be concerned for my safety?

Thanks for your help and input.

Jill says January 9, 2015

Also, everyone learns in their own time. You may have to go thru it again to understand that you could never have a normal relationship with a Narcissist. They are who they are and will never be like us.

    mike says January 9, 2015

    “2) accept it – it kind of placed me in a situation where their support was conditional on my taking this risk.”

    That comment really rubs me the wrong way. They’re not sincere friends if any of their support is conditional.

    And secondly, it’s YOUR life, your emotions and your risk at stake…not theirs.

    I hope it all works out for you.

      silkred says January 10, 2015

      It rubbed me the wrong way too – his offer felt like a ‘fait accompli’ once I asked advice from those around me – it was as if it became a relief to “them” that everything would go back to normal and they all strongly resisted me wishing to 1) ignore it…

      The dynamic is different from normal in so far as this is a group of people who take part in a sport – I dont actually have to specifically spend time with this person but he is always there – an omnipresence and vocal with it as you would expect – its all about him the notion that he is as I suspect him to be is quite unambiguous.

      Inside me I was slowly starting to come to terms with things and slowly starting to make attempts to fly again – I am feeling stronger inside me after this period of “no contact” – I am also honest and open about what happened and why I am not flying so I dont keep quiet about this but equally I dont make a point about talking about it with everyone around as that in itself was reflecting badly on me. It seems almost abstracted now that so much time has passed and its me who seems absurd talking about the specifics of what happened.

      Materially having accepted this offer makes no difference to me – I will not see or have to talk with this person – what it will change is the dynamic of “limited contact” when I go to the hills it fly my glider… it is in this space I have hope…

      RIght now it all feels very strange – the group of people who acted out or facilitated the abuse as I see it are…. if you imagine this group like stars in the galaxy – the abusers feel like orbiting black holes – I have to keep well away from them – its exhausting and so I have never felt in the correct mental place to clip into my glider and take off to fly… to do that you need to have your mind up there in the clouds – free and clear – thinking about the birds and feeling only the air – you need to be free and I have not been now for more than 6 months and diminished for a year before that…

      So if this is anything it is an attempt to move forward and try to step further away from what happened – and to be honest I really feel I need some support – I feel very vulnerable and alone – this whole thing has destroyed my sense of community – I have no casual social contact with any of the pilots who I know talk a bit together every day – I have none of that – I see a small group once a week in the pub where we just talk about stuff like normal people – its them who admonished me for wanting to ignore this offer… and so it was this my last foothold that fell away when I asked for advice… normal people simply do not understand the dynamic of NPD – explaining it makes you seem like a total nutter…

      I know I am taking a risk – I know that this is common behaviour this coming back – it is destabilising a fragile but doggedly tenacious recovery – but I also realise its only me who is going to recover – no one is going to do it for me and so like in that quote from my book I am doing a thing and shutting my eyes in hope that it will be better somehow…

      I need that hope, I want to find that freedom inside me so once more I might fly free among the clouds….

    ck says January 14, 2015

    Dont reconnect..another power game to just see if u will even think about it or respond…he is toxic…run..

      silkred says January 15, 2015

      the things that are happening to me after this are interesting…

      I remember when I went “no contact” it was strange in a similar way, I actually perversly missed the abuse !! – it had become so defining, or at least had become a thing that I was constantly engaged with – even though my interactions were full of stress – depression – anger – when I went NC I found the emptiness hard to cope with, looking then at my newly ostracized place outside of the community I had up till then freely enjoyed I was now even bereft of the abuser and in a way I was so lonely that I missed even that… utterly perverse I know…

      Now having had this denouement where his approach and my acceptance of it has kind of taken the substance out of my circumstances… the definition was clear and easy before – I had just felt too that I had come to terms with everything and was getting on getting on…

      Now looking at the ease with which its all gone away – such a simple interaction – “do you want a fresh start” – “yes” – “ok” – “lets not talk about the past” – “good idea”….

      What I now feel is like my whole sense of self has been suddenly truncated… I am feeling a confusing mix of things – affronted by the ease with this seeming resolution – full of anger at how its affected me not to say the ambiguities I face relinking to the group as a whole – I sent a contribution into the forum where they all are the other day – a simple comment about something normal – just like before – exactly what I have missed so much – some replied – some talked about other stuff – others started other threads – it was like looking in on a room full of people chatting… being excluded from that room for what is 18 months – and now being able to walk in and talk like nothing has happened has made me really sad inside for the meaninglessness of it all… how hard it is when this is used as a weapon – manipulating and controlling a person’s connectedness is a powerful and painful weapon… it really hurts…

      none of the stress – depression – anxiety simply goes up in smoke – I am mindful too that dealing with those things is now made more difficult given the blurring of the framework that formed them – those feelings have been orphaned in a way, left out on their own, I think a big risk now for me is that I bury them – try to move on without addressing them…

      if I was to say what I am full of at this moment it is confused anger…

      this is bloody difficult

      silkred says March 22, 2015

      I did not reconnect so much as simply accept his offer of a fresh start… in the sense that it was simply an idea – I don’t have to and don’t see this person in my life – the offer and its manifestation in my life was fully abstract…

      What happened was strange though – and I am not sure I fully understand it – but – after he offered this “fresh start” and I got over the surprise and the sense that it was unexpected – after he reconnected me to all the online forums that I had been banned from my sense of connection to the sport we had shared simply evaporated…

      It was as if in the years while there was abuse that that in itself became the thing that defined my connection to hang gliding – in those years – 2013/2014 – my mind was fully preoccupied with the affront of having been ostracised – running endlessly over how and why – over how all the others seemed to simply accept it however they may have sympathised with me on a one on one level…

      I had initially thought I would just slowly pick up where I left off but its not working that way – its almost as if I have been dumped in a way – that the narcissist finally tired of the abuse – and turned round and walked off – the energy of the abusive link has gone and with it my link to flying – flying I had had to step back from because of a need for No Contact…

      So in a way I am kind of left alone in an empty room – I remember some of the noise and commotion from the days and years before but the source of my desire to fly has been severely hurt by its association with the years of abuse – has been polluted by it… almost as if the whole thing has been ossified in the negative energy that this person focused on me – its depressing.

      I try only now to be patient – to feel my way – and not react to this sense of emptiness – fill it with other things and in a way hope that in time that the feelings will return… but that is only for the experience of flying – we are not alone in this world – we do not do things only for the thing itself but that experience is surrounded by other people – and its those people who are largely the same – all of whom stood back and let me be abused.

      How can one return to a place like that.

silkred says January 8, 2015

I am being troubled by the narcissist in this exact way – I was very surprised to find a message of his in my email system from 01/01/15 and today a week later a text from his number repeating his wish to “make a fresh start”

Discussing this with some trusted others one of whom commented that this is a good thing, that I should accept this “olive branch” – then they go one to admonish me for saying something along the lines of “not in a million years” placing me in the wrong and on the defencive – you really can’t win with these people can you…

So my thinking on how I might respond can be listed as:

1) ignore it

2) accept it

3) tell him to fuck off

4) tell him to write 300 words describing his impressions of what happened, no direction, free to say whatever he will – but not to send it to me rather to post it on the forum from which I have been ostracized as a public statement to the group… then wait 2 years – the length of time this had been present in my life after which if he has been a positive presence in my life – stayed out my way and kept his mouth shut then – ok – a fresh start might be possible.

I am interested in 4) as I am not entering into any direct conversation with the narcissist on any level whatever – even his offer is manifesting in my life in defencive ways so no – I don’t care to know what he thinks – it would however be interesting if he would carry out this task – how he resolves what we are to make a fresh start would be interesting for him to think about but I would not and never would read it… however mindful that his words would be like poison and reading them akin to that sushi made from poisonous fish…

One wonders too how this fresh start would manifest for his little group of facilitating sidekicks – maybe 4 or 5 other people who have acted more or less abusively in tandem with the narcissist would the fresh start to be exclusively with the narcissist or with this whole team is his offer the result of some consensus between these people that they all agree they have acted abusively and they are somehow sorry and wish to help repair the damage.

Would the fresh start include reparations with all the people the narcissist and his sidekicks directly contacted privately to point out this or that smearing observation about me – in fact in this area they would have to contact the national grouping of those in our shared sport of hang gliding – as at one point my personal communications with a support forum were found by him and then published publically in a national forum – so this “fresh start”, does that include some sort of national statement to repair that damage?

Then finally, as I am actually feeling better these days, starting to discover I have thoughts of flying fluttering around in my mind, visiting other pilots and even getting up to the launching places – I have yet to fly – but I trust that this will come soon so while I am manifestly getting better and confronting the anxiety and the confidence issues related to the abuses I have suffered this “olive branch” suddenly places my re-integration in a frame made by the narcissist. I would be re-integrating by his grace, he would look to my presence on the hill with my glider as something the narcissist has made possible by this “fresh start” – should I thank him each time I arrive – should I bow each time I pass – should I offer thanks and carry his bags from the car as I have observed the person identifiable as a possible next victim doing…

Fuck that.

Option 1)

    Jill says January 9, 2015

    I would also go with Option 1. No sense being his friend. He will just pull you into all the drama and also he is not a sincere friend. They always come back wanting to reconnect. Lose the Loser!

      silkred says January 9, 2015

      well – I talked with a number of people about this – universally they took the view that I needed to 2) accept – it kind of placed me in a situation where their support was conditional on my taking this risk – at this same time my current book began to mewes on similar lines – I am reading: Summa Technologiae by Stanisław Lem

      This quote and my friends advice took me to contact him and accept the offer…

      I have to say that I am feeling very emotionally released after this – I feel very vulnerable – but at this same time I am talking about a single person in a group of others – so I gamble that ameliorating this tension – being cautious – remaining much more aware of what I now know will let me refocus on what I really miss which is the flying…

      I have not flown my glider for 6 months – more – last June – I cannot fly without a lightness in my heart and so hope that this will gift that feeling too me such that I might once more find my feet missing this earth for a little while now and again… its not really about him so much as about me and the light inside my heart thats been so dark during these times…

      I feel strange however – very…

        Jill says January 9, 2015

        I think it’s a mistake to reconnect. That quote is for normal people, not narcissists. If he is a true Narcissist (without empathy) then there is no sense getting back in touch with him. More pain will come to you. They never change and will just do their best to suck you in and hurt you all over again. Instead, my advice would be no contact, forget him and find something that could love you back. Good Luck.

          silkred says January 9, 2015

          You may be right…

mike says January 6, 2015

That hit home! “When I say I’m in love with you, I mean…” All of it to a T. Wow!

Jill says December 17, 2014

They will always try to come back into our lives. And they seem to come back as if nothing happened. I found that telling mine that I had figured out he was a Narc/Sociopath scared him off. They don’t like it when they are busted and they usually stay away from you because they know you can blow their cover. 🙂

Deedra says December 16, 2014

My narc came back after almost 2 years. Sumhow he came driving by my new apartment as I was getting out of my pickup after work. Unfortunately he knows my pickup and plate number! He had the nerve to ask if I still hated him??!! I responded by telling him he was a douche bag and ran for my front door. Being in his presence makes me feel sick to my stomach even after all this time!!

Cheryl says December 11, 2014

So, my ex narc left me three months ago after a 3.5 year relationship for the woman he was involved with before me…a 17 year relationship I had no knowledge of, in fact, it is my belief that they never ended that relationship even though he was “living” with me. A month after he left, he calls me about a freezer he’d bought to replace one I’d had prior to the relationship that went out; I was going to sell it cause I was trying to move out of state because I couldn’t deal with the rejection I felt when he left and I wanted to start over someplace else. His mom asked how much I was selling it for, etc; I told her to call him for the details cause he charged it and had the paperwork. He immediately called me and told me the freezer was not mine to sell and that he wanted me to just hand it over to his mother. Yeah right…I asked him the night he walked out what he wanted to do with that freezer and he told me to keep it. Now all of a sudden, it’s not mine.

Anyway, I told his mom after that conversation that I was not going to just give it to her as my reason for selling it was for the money cause the ex left me with no money or job but if she wanted to buy it, she could like any other person. I totally expected the ex to call back and bitch but he didn’t. I installed an number blocker on my phone just in case. In the meantime, he had my internet and satellite services turned off and I knew it wouldn’t be long that he would try to contact me to get the equipment, cause the fees are high if these places don’t get back their equipment. Two weeks later, the ex began calling & texting for the next three weeks, several times a week. He also used someone else’s phone number, which I looked up on googlemaps to see the location cause I don’t answer numbers I don’t recognize. It appears to be a man’s number and the location was in his truck route so I know it was one of his trucker friends phone. I didn’t respond; I deleted texts and the number blocker would not let anyone with a blocked number go to voicemail.

The day after Thanksgiving, the ex calls. I don’t answer. Five minutes later, my landlady who lives about 100 ft. from my house calls and asks me if I’m okay. I say, yes, why? She says the ex was just at her house and wanted to know if I still lived here because he’s been calling and I’m not answering my phone. She says she told him “as far as I know she’s still living there”. She knows about the breakup and I tell her I’m avoiding him, which she understands. Now, it’s been almost three months since the ex has seen me at all. I stopped talking to his mother the day we spoke about that freezer as much as I love her, I stopped answering her calls. NO ONE he knows has seen me, I don’t go places I know he goes to, I avoid certain roads at certain times of the day, etc. It was like I dropped off the face of the earth.

I knew eventually I would have to give him that internet and satellite equipment but I was going to make him wait for it. I was not going to jump and answer his calls/texts just because he was GRACING me with communication. He was not used to me ignoring him in the same manner that he had been ignoring me. See, before he went to my landlady’s house, he didn’t really know I was purposely in no contact mode. He thought he was doing it to me but after talking to her, he knew that if she could call me, then I must be ignoring him. That made him burn the phone line up even more. Also, my thought was, if he was so desperate to get the equipment and he knew i was ignoring him, why didn’t he send me a registered letter, put a note on my door or car (which by the way, was parked in front of my house the day he knocked on my landlady’s door) or send the sheriff to my house with a court order? By this point, he’d been trying to call/text for four weeks, why not send a letter?

Anyway, last Friday was my birthday as well as his uncle’s (HE WILL FOREVER REMEMBER MY BIRTHDAY!). I was on the phone with a cousin and he calls. I finish my call then I text him…”yes?”. He calls again..I wait then text him…”????”. He text back ” I need that equipment”. I wait…then text back ” you can get it tomorrow at 11 am” . Two hours later, he texts back “Happy Birthday, wish u many more”. I didn’t respond; I wanted to throw up!

Anyway, I decided that when he came the next day, I was going to look the best he’s ever seen me so I put on heels, stockings, skirt, low cut blouse, make up, fingernails done, White Diamonds perfume, hair loose and looking good. As a side note, I had a little sexcapade a few days before with a friend, who left a passion mark on my neck and one right where the blouse crisscrossed on my chest that I didn’t bother to try to hide. So when I saw his truck pull into my driveway, I came out my house while on my phone and slowly strolled down the ramp (I have a handicapped ramp) and went to my car to get a paper that I needed to get as he pulled up. He sat there for a minute in the truck as I slowly strolled back up to my door. When I turned around, he was behind me so I went into the house and pushed my door together while I gathered up the equipment then I took it outside on the porch and handed it to him. I had to go back into the house to get some other items and took them out to him. He asked about the equipment and we definately didnt talk about anything personal. A couple of minutes later, he got in his truck and left…no goodbye, see ya or anything not that I expected it.

The ex didn’t look happy; he looked kind of busted…faded jeans, a old work shirt and boots on unlaced; cigarette hanging from his mouth. Now, I don’t know if that “unhappy” look was due to the way I looked…like he might have been thinking..damn! She looks beautiful and I lost that or I don’t even know if he really *saw* me, as in the way I looked, like maybe he noticed those passion marks and now he know I’m no longer sitting around crying like he *thought* I might be, still brokenhearted. I’m not sure he actually paid attention to what I looked like, but one thing is for sure, I didn’t look like that all the time when we were together. At this point, my no contact on him was 36 days.

Also, while he was here, I told him I couldnt find the remote to my livingroom tv; I wasnt sure I packed it up in his stuff when he left that night but I told him if he happened to come across it, fine. He said if he found it, he would put it in my mailbox, which is next to my landlady’s house. The next day, i found the remote, so I texted him just to tell him not to bother looking for it. That same night, my “friend” took my car up to the gas station near my house to put air in the tires; this is the same place I met my ex narc and all his little truck driver friends hang out here. Friend tells me there was a few of ex narc’s buddies that saw him with my car; in fact, friend knows some of the same people but ex didnt know this was my friend. Anyway, I never got a response from my last text and I’m sure ex’s buddies got on the horn and passed the word that this man was driving my car.

So why the happy birthday text, then now when he saw me looking sexy, he has no communication? I mean, why the hateraid? Ex left me, remember? Replies appreciated!

dragonbrains says December 7, 2014

Thank you so much for writing this. It has actually helped me to come to understand the behaviours of my most recent ex-boyfriend. I am a woman who has been in two abusive relationships and has alcoholic parents – I fit perfectly into Robin Norwood’s definition of a Woman who Loves Too Much. The obsession I have with my most recent ex has been hard to get over, especially as he exhibits these traits. I broke up with him and cut off contact, but got back in touch with him – I said it was to “see if we could be friends” but really it was because not talking to him was absolutely agonising. He knew exactly how to use that to gain control of me, and soon we had the same old dynamics going. I have cut contact from him again (following several arguments culminating in him threatening to contact the police because I apparently “disrespected” him); but it has been getting difficult to keep the ties cut, but this article has motivated me to stay away from his damaging behaviours and to have more respect for myself. Thank you.

    Kim Saeed says May 31, 2015

    Thank you for stopping by and for commenting. I’m so glad the article was helpful to you, and hope you’re still NC and moving towards a happier life <3

Sally says November 28, 2014

I am feeling embarrassed because my narc hoovered me today and it worked. I broke no contact. I had left my narc on a not good note. I’m worried he wants revenge. One thing in my favor is that I don’t feel in love with my narc anymore, but I do feel a lot of compassion and friendship for him. I honestly don’t think I can be sucked in again romantically. My question, I guess, is can my narc actually be a friend? Are they capable of friendship? Anybody with experience having a narc as a friend?

    Kim Saeed says November 28, 2014

    Sally, if he is truly a Narcissist, then this is indeed a hoovering attempt. It could go either way…either he wants you as supply, or he wants revenge and is preparing for a painful and harrowing discard.

    Possibly both.

    To answer your question, true Narcissists cannot be friends to anyone. They can pretend to be for short periods of time, but there’s always a devastating reason behind it. The only so-called “friends” Narcs have are the ones in their social circle that they want to impress, but those are very shallow relationships. Specifically, Narcs cannot have intimate bonds of friendship. Anyone they hang out with is simply so they can show off in front of them in order to maintain the false image they want others to have of who they “are”.

    tiredofliars8 says November 28, 2014

    Sally. I let my ex N in as a friend. It is possible as long as you are in a position of power and you have totally moved on. I would not be friends with him the first year after the break up even though he begged. Then I finally said ok after he cried about “how could you cut me off completely when we meant so much to each other” Here’s the problem. You think you are completely over them but letting them in too soon gives them the opening to triangulate, manipulate and mind phuck. I cut him off at least 4 times the first 3 years I tried to be friends. I have to add I moved on and had a new boyfriend within 3 months so part of me was guilty for moving on so fast after a 10 year relationship. Accepting him as a friend too soon confused me about my new relationship and caused me angst. Right now I’m 5 years out and we talk occasionally. If I feel like answering I do. He knows he is messed up and he apologized profusely for messing us up. Takes full responsibility. I’m in a great relationship. He has multiple relationships and always has drama. I have to say his drama is entertaining at times. When he gives me the old “let’s meet for dinner” line I tell him yea when I free up. I never free up. I must say this. If I have a problem he is good because of course they always know the right things to say. If I tell him off about his narc behavior he accepts it. The only reason I have any kind of contact with him is enough time has passed, I know he tried, he still makes me laugh, he admits he fits the Narcissist label, he is respectful to me and he treated me very well in between his Narc episodes. You have to think about what you will get out of being friends. They are just as inconsistent and drama filled as friends as they were as significant others and if that will bother you it’s not a good idea.

Olivia says November 25, 2014

I’m new to the revelation of having been with not one but two narcissists. I recently divorced one after 20 years (I met him when I was 13 and divorced after ten years of marriage) and getting into another relationship that was the same…..only I’m 30 weeks pregnant. I am trying desperately to break away but it has been not even 24 hours since last contact and I’m clinging to the sad hope that he’ll reach out to me. Everything I’ve read, everything I know tells me this isn’t what I really want but I feel so broken and worthless. He knows I’m having a baby and that I’m vulnerable yet he has no problem disappearing. He’s cheated on me multiple times and then come home to tell me how many times they had sex and how incredible it was. It wouldn’t surprise me if he’s already doing that now. I need help to find the strength to not reach out to him. I don’t want to have this baby alone. I want to have a loving partner and it’s making me self sabotage in ways that I can’t even explain. I am simply thinking about this non stop. Any advice would help.

cherylptw says November 19, 2014

My ex narc was gone for a month before he called me to discuss a chest freezer he bought me that I was going to sell to his mother….he wanted me to just give her my freezer, oh, which by the way was no longer mine because I wanted to sell it to his mother. When he was leaving me, i asked him what he wanted to do with the brand new freezer he’d bought me to replace mine that quit two months prior and he told me to keep it. Now I want to sell it because he left me with no income or support and I was thinking of moving out of state and it’s no longer mine. Well, I mulled over giving it to her because I made the mistake of picking up the phone and he tried to brow beat me into it but later, I thought it out….he bought it to replace my freezer which makes it a gift, so no, as much as I love his mother, in fact, it saddens me that she won’t end up being my mother in law, I only told her about the freezer when I was unloading my plans to leave, which was a mistake. So I let her know I would not be giving it to her but she was welcome to buy it when I was ready to sell it and told her I hoped it wouldn’t ruin our relationship. I’d been waiting since then to get another call from him to threaten me in some way over the damn freezer but nothing since then up until this past weekend.

I installed Mr. Number app on my phone when he left and i deleted his number, pics etc off my phone. So, the satellite and internet services were in his name, when he left, I expected him to have it shut off especially since he left, he moved his new supply into a new house and the satellite tv company sent a email to our online account verifying the work order to install cable in their new house. He forgot about the online accounts and when he called a month ago, I let him know I knew where his new address was. He was taken aback. Anyway, Saturday, I get two texts; the first one was ” Good Afternoon. When would be a good time to come by to get the cable box and belongings?” Like we’re best friends and no time is a good time in my book. A few hours later, the second text came through: ” Did u get my earlier text?” I didn’t respond to either text.

The next day, Sunday, I’m sitting on my laptop with my phone on the arm of my chair and it goes off; I look at it…it’s the ex. He called three times in a row cause Mr. Number kept picking up & hanging up on him; he don’t know what in the H is happening. I love this app especially since any number on your blocked list won’t go to voicemail. First, I had the internet shut off in his name and re-opened in my name a month ago; second, he should have shut the cable off when he left but he has left it on. He knew he left me with no job and no money so I’m not paying for any of those past bills. Now, he is not used to not having control. I made the mistake of answering that first call two months ago, I won’t make it again. I’m not responding to any more calls or texts. If he comes to my door, I’m not answering. He can shut the cable off and when I’m ready, I’ll set the boxes in a garbage bag and sit it near my mailbox on the road but he won’t have the luxury of seeing me at any time if I can help it at my door. Now, he will have to pay the cable & internet companies for the cost of the boxes if he don’t return them and I’m not going to keep them BUT I’m not jumping just cause he “graces” me with his texts and calls and I’m not responding just cause he thinks i should. So, if he don’t like it and can’t wait until I decide when I want to sit the boxes outside my door, he can call the sherriff and he can come by my house and I’ll be happy to turn them ovr to him but my ex is not running anything here anymore. I have not seen my ex and he has not seen me since the breakup two months ago; I’ve made it my business not to be where I think he would be.

I don’t normally believe in tarot card readings but last week, I had a general reading and the lady described my ex from the first card she read; she told me that he was instrumental in crooked goings on behind my back in my recent past (him getting back with is ex) that he was harboring secret grudges against me (which I believe since he was spreading lies and i’d put him out) and that this person wanted to be back in my life somehow, that he was looking for a crack or a doorway opening to come through cause he feels this is the time is right to reconnect with me. This lady told me that this person who was a past love (it’s him by all descriptions), although it may seem that his circumstance has changed externally, internally, emotionally and mentally, nothing has changed. This reading was even before I got the second phone calls & texts. So now everytime since then when someone comes to my door, I don’t answer it unless i know who it is. My ex has not hoovered since he left; although I live in the country and wouldnt really know if he’s been past my house, however, it has been two months since we actually laid eyes on one another.

I’m wondering if now the ex might start trying to contact me for real to try to rope me back in; I’ve just started getting myself together and although i still wake up every morning with panic attacks, I just want my life back before i met ths fake person. Should I be on my guard. That tarot card reading has me spooked.

DeenaBabie says November 15, 2014

Thank you for this. It allows me to have the power to NOT RESPOND to my ex after more then a year who has been texting and calling for the past few weeks. I ALMOST ANSWERED HIM…..

After reading this I feel stronger because he has actually now resorted to leaving voice messages. I have not answered him after an ugly/public breakup (he is a front man for a semi-popular band and has a serious drug addition which he refused to get help for) and he left me for a groupie who adores and idolizes him. He literally left my bed one night and was in her’s the next. I shut down my social network after his vile sister attacked me backstage last fall in year in Chicago. I re-treated into isolation because I felt it was MY FAULT he had a relapse and I tried everything to get him help however he would not help himself. He only told vicious lies about me and blamed me for his infidelity and drug use because I didn’t or couldn’t make him happy enough. I see the light now… is NOT MY FAULT …I did NOTHING wrong….I offered him quality help and a place to live and provided everything while he contributed absolutely NOTHING emotionally or financially to the relationship.

He recently was fired from his bar-tending job and had to crawl back to his old one and now will be asking “Do you want white rice or pork fried rice with your Mongolian Beef” as a waiter because he got DE-moated and is no longer working the bar. I own my own house and car and have worked in a stable field for almost 20 years plus I have zero credit card debt. I believe he is absolutely miserable and why he is reaching out to me because he is ready to leave the groupie and doesn’t want to go live with his mother. He is seeing if I would be an option again because that’s what a parasite like he is does to women. He owns nothing in the world and has enormous debt. He is an emotional vampire who will steal your car in the middle of the night to get himself a fix.

This man was my first boyfriend and first kiss when we were growing up together. He became a drug using front-man/bartender /food server who contacted me 25ish years after graduating high school and the nostalgic memories of our youth attracted me towards him when we talked about how cute we were in 7th grade holding hands and kissing by the school bus. He sat behind me in math and gazed at me always. He shared school supplies and candy with me. He was a chubby boy with glasses who grew up to be a very handsome man. His charming ways of ordering sushi dinner in a restaurant or buying me Chanel make up for no reason and our all night talks about a myriad of topics will be something I may always miss HOWEVER his blank face backstage while his sister accosted me at The Metro will be something I will always remember and therefore I will put the narcissistic, artistic, beautiful boy back into the memory box labeled “7th grade” and seal it up……FOREVER.

No response IS actually a response. …If I were drowning and you reached your hand out to save me, I would turn my face from you and sink into the abyss of a watery grave while you watched before I ever gave you the satisfaction of helping me. I will help myself.
Good bye Danny

A checklist of narcissistic douche-canoe behaviors | Process of Elimination says November 14, 2014

[…] They are control freaks. Some are subtle, some are overt. One of the reasons why they zero in on those with battered self esteem. […]

Eden says November 13, 2014

Hi Eden,

He said all of that in the shop because he wanted to see if he could win you back. When you wrote to him and rejected him, he lied and said it was a joke because he felt embarrassed. They can’t stand rejection so they try to cover it up and make you feel as bad as they do. My ex did the same. Wrote to me that he missed me and then I told him never contact me and he sent me a nasty email trying to bring me down. Ignore it. If you had started dating him again it would not have been long before he would have discarded you again. So the outcome would have been the same either way.

Dont beat yourself up too badly about having to start over. We have all been there. I myself went three months w/o contact before I caved in and agreed to a disastrous conversation. But each time you will find its just a little bit easier to recover. And each time he shows you just how dysfunctional he is, cementing your decision to leave him alone. Don’t offer him any apologies for not being his friend. He doesn’t deserve an explanation, or any communication at all. Leave him to his misery.

Ellen says November 13, 2014


I am embarrased. But think i have to be hounest to help other codependend.
So he did not contact me for three weeks and than text me i did not respond but next dAy i saw him in a shop. So we talked. Whole story that he is not happy with that other person etc.
He wanted just me etc. And when that relation is over he would come to me.
I mailed him the next day that i don’t want ever ever no more a relation with him.
Very clear for the first time. Then he texted me that he hoped for me to Find finally the love of my life because he has found that one. One and only. Grrrr so bad!!! Why all those lies in the shop?.
When i asked him Why and he Said sorry it was a Joke. I send an angry mail he plays that other person also.

Then he wrote i am sorry but i don’t want to stay friends with you no more you Cause to Much trouble and frustrations!

So now he have his Controle back.
I was just so proud of myself that i managed to get my live back on track.
Every day was getting better. I told to myself by Reading all those story’s here i will never let him get to me like that and now he haves his way again.
Now i have to start all over again:-(

While he has his Triumph. I am so angry with him but dissapointed in myself!
ITS realy like addiction.

Watch out. A view weeks no contact does not Make you clean. Stay in controle.
I am so tired.


    Anon says November 13, 2014

    Ellen, seems to me YOU have the power now, not him! I’m sure he only said it was a joke because he was trying to save his ego. Narcs can’t admit real hurt…especially when they know you are finally serious about dumping them. So, by being straight and cutting him out for good, you took back the power. Keep it that way. You will thank yourself in the morning. 😉 Good job!

      Kim Saeed says November 14, 2014

      Great response, Anon!

      Ellen, Anon is absolutely correct. And by the way, everything is a joke to the narcissist. One of their manipulative tactics is to cut you down and then say they were just kidding. In hindsight, it’s really quite juvenile, isn’t it? Who does that?

      Stay strong and stay No Contact. That’s my new motto – Life begins after No Contact 🙂 You can do this.

TimesaHealer says November 8, 2014

Hi Kim
First, i just want to say, like most i have spent many a sleepless night trawling the internet and reading books, i came across your blog very early on when desperate for knowledge and it is so crucial that the information we first fall up on is correct. I feel blessed that i came across your blog along with one other, there is so much false information out there, unfortunately some Narcissistic Abuse forums become the Narcissist,s playground set up to hunt for their next pound of flesh. I am so glad i observed without commenting in those early days, and still only use one private well hidden forum on a regular basis to this day. I set up my blog only to hit a brick wall, after 42 years of questioning who i was, all of a sudden the answers seemed to come thick and fast creating a grid lock in my head. Does that make sense Kim? So i was writing everything down only to read back a whole lot of beginnings with the beginnings of another event as the ending! lol Not as easy as i first thought. I just wanted to explain the reasons for my blank blog- 🙂 I will get there but the most important thing is, i am on my way 🙂 I hope many more will be as lucky to find let me reach in their darkest hour just as i was, the path won,t seem so desert -less <3

Anonymous says November 7, 2014

Hey Martin
Thanks for sharring. How difficult this would be for you. Especially because your son is involved. You can´t go to a ´no contact´ sone and get easier over it like people with no children.
I do can imagian how it feels to be humuliated like that and rip your heart out and step on it. In your situation it must be even harder.

I wish you strenght and all the best for you and your son. Know that many people are in this simulair situation. There are many people who understand you and you can get support from many people.

Stay strong.


Martin says November 7, 2014

Being the victim of narsasistic abuse is very tough. I met this wonderful woman who rocked my world we we both 29. Having had many relationships this lady stole my heart. I loved her so much. After six moths she was pregnant. I sold my car flat and moved to the area that she lived. I saw a future with her. She felt the same.

In the last six months I found out she had been back in contact with a family friend who was a millionaire. I’ve been discarded like a McDonald’s wrapper. She also signed a deed of trust two months before we split. The solicitor states the deed is in force and to get my house back I must pay her close to £65,000. She never paid a bill whilst she was there.

She is now stopping me from seeing my son who is now three years old. She is so ill I wish I could help her. I can’t sleep I can’t eat. I miss my son so badly. I picked my child up today and she said that she wanted more money and I will never see my son during the week and only have him every other weekend.

He new millionaire boyfriend lives in Dubai. He is 10 years older fat bald and is a bit of a square. She is so orientated by money. She hasn’t shed a tear since I walked out after finding out about the affair. I’m gutted shaken to the core. I can switch off. She has control of me…… I’m a copper too!

Jennifer Wallace-Barnes says November 6, 2014

my narcissist is a parent. after 3 month no contact this is what he said in a private message on FB: “I miss jXXX (grandchild). its not fair that you de-friended me on FB. that was my only way to see j___ (grandchild). I don’t care if i don’t see you again but i would do anything for j___ (grandchild). it hurt but I am not responding.

    Kim Saeed says November 14, 2014

    Thank you for sharing.

    This was just a jab in order to do exactly what you described…to hurt you. No engagement is the best way to handle this kind of event. It’s not your job to stay friends with this person on FB so they can cyber-stalk you. If this person is a narcissist, it’s best that the child in question has no contact with them, anyway.

Ellen says November 5, 2014

Its been more then two weeks NO CONTACT.

The last contact i had was from my side. A mail with subject `STOP FOR EVER WITH CONTACT!. And then text message that i still want to have peace with another. But he did not react. So with his proud. Almost three weeks still not heard from him.

Yesterday i missed him so bad i almost texted him!! HELPPP.
I know i should not do that.

Some days i feel better and laughing again. But today and yesterday i miss him. Went shopping what i ussualy do with him. And in my mind it feels like if he walks behind me or is somewhere els in the shop. I like feel alone at that time. Maybe i just miss compagny.

But still nobody knows the interaction and humor and interesse that we have. Still a part of letting go. The first time we have no contact for such a long time. He is now with that other person. He has distraction. But i dont want to rush in to an other relationship still mourning him.

To take someone in your live just to feel not alone. That would not be fair for that other person. So better go trough the pain. This is the first fall of many years i am alone now.
Hate that dark weather. Hate Christmas thats comming.

Its silly but i feel bad. Maybe this is a part of his punishment of him. Because he knows i hate fighting and wants to solve everything. But maybe he just forgatten me. And is now in the begin fase of that other one both very happy. And he is happy to get rid of me.
And talks bad about me to everyone.

I am moving on. Sometimes think i am getting over it. But then at some moments it comes back and i miss him.

I cant stand it if he does not misses me.

    ck says January 14, 2015

    Ellen its a power thing..he loves just disappearing ..and u dont have closure..plz plz keep up with no contact..he doesnt care about u..hes not capable of it…it happened to me..he just disappeared also…you will make it i promiss u…i did ..

m.m says November 3, 2014

Anyone have the feeling after all is said and done withthe narcissist that your love life is a joke. Relationships seem so ridiculous to me now. I view them as keeping me away from productive things. I tried to force myself to like a guy or date and I got nothing as if I channneled the narcissist and this must be how he feels. I can be attracted and everything but iy doesnt matter I have no interest its like something died in me. I love being on my own and alone but when I think of my ex narc the pain of his disc a rd wont go away and it seems like hes the only thing that can remind me of what love felt like. I also have a lot of rage and I am so cynical and pessimistic of everything .I think I have ptsd. Even worse he met an adorable famous person in his country who does the same work as him andnthey are having a baby. Hes totally using her for her fame because shes good at what he wants to be good at. I feel bad a baby was brought into this and that they lasted a long time so far . I shouldnt feel bad but its like I dont exist and hes behaving so well for her and he was horrible to me.

Ellen says October 27, 2014

Thank you Eden, That helps me a lot. It feels so good finally found a site where i have contact with people that understand me. Tell this to friends with no codependency they dont understand.. Cat and mouse game. The gameplan of your ex sounds familiar.
The thing that gives me a bad feeling is that in the meantime when he did not contact you he has a lot of fun and totaly forget about you. Its only in a weak moment when he has some contact with his heart that he contacts you. Thats the handicap. They only sometimes and realy view times they have a connection with his heart. And there is a scared inmature little person who is scared of live and everything in it.
Thats the weakness of women who loves so much. I lived for this sparesome moments to see in his soul. The sacred place where no one can get but i do.
I know for sure that that moments are real. But one night in the three mounths and rest of the time deal with his Narcism. Thats no live.

His last tekst was that he is aware that he makes people missarable. And that i better look for an other man because he cant make me happy.

it makes me sad.. i pitty him but he can use this agains me when the monster comes back. So i have got to stay strong.

Nign mounths for you is very long time. Good for you that you feel strong now.
For me its only a week. And i know in my mind what i SHOULD think say and feel.
But it would feel good when he will contact me. I wish it where not.
You have been through it. Say to him to stay away for ever and nothing to do with him anymore. When you click on SEND.. its sooo sad feeling. So empty.
But it has to.

Now i think on my timeline of my life. What about over one or two years. Where do i stand when i let him still in my heart and in my life? I would never be happy with such a childish, inresponcible Narcist. I have a lot to offer a person that walks with me on my path of life. He would never acknowlegde my beautifull aspects of my as a person.
Now i am going back to study and get a job and make new friends. Because now i have nothing anymore. Thats why it is so easy to come back because i have no one here in my neighborhoud. I crawl back now.

He knows its a matter of time that i will be on my feet again. Thats te time that he will put me to the test. I feel like i have to train for a mental fight. I am going to train my mind with positive things that shows me my capacitys and the people i am making smile.
I am a happy person by nature but a friend said i almost never smile now. I did not know that.

They are acctualy jealours of us because we can escape from the monster in him. He has to live with this 24/7 negativity in his life. Only a tiny moment of happiness getting his egosuply. But his state of mind is never stable. Its an intern fight where Always negative emotion comes above.

When i have had a daughter it would break my heart when she lives here life besides a N. As an extension of this SuperGod.. Where my precious daughter with so much giving love and trying. Puts here self a side..

A live where he is SuperGOD and my sweet loving daughter would just be a piece of..
Where you can .. on.

If we dont want this for our child.. why we do this to ourselfs. We must lover ourself just as much as our childeren. Because the child in your heart Always excist.

Eden says October 26, 2014

Ps..Even when I told him not to contact me again, my heart was breaking because even tho it was the right thing to do, it was hard to sever the connection for good. Some part of me liked that he was trying to get me back. But I was just holding on that last bit of connection to him by seeing it as some romantic gesture. And maybe he does love me, his own way; I believe he does. But him at his best is still dysfunctional.

Your ex WILL contact you again. And repeat what you have already said if you feel you have to reply. (Ignoring would be better), but you have to hold fast to what you know is right. Do not follow your heart anymore when it comes to him. Do what your spirit tells you.

Ellen says October 26, 2014

Hello Anonymous,

I read your story. Sad to hear so many people get dammaged from such sick people. Sorry for my bad Englisch by the way but i wanted to say that i understand your situation. He sounds very insecure with his story of a woman whisperer. When things sounds to good to be true they usually are. It s like the N just get a little to charming, romantic, a little to in love, acting to helpfull etc.Just always something over the top. But a little. And ONLY in the beginning. He cant put up with that. You are in debt for everything nice he does for you. Even the tinest smile. ´YOU OWE ME’ . For Someone so fantastic and beyond you.

My N ex left me. He just was gone at a time i was in Holland with my mom she has cancer. I lived with him for two years and then moved out because of the problems. Then we agree to have a LAT relation But he never visit me in my new home. He said there is no woman like me, he loved only me couldnt imagion to be with some one els and everything from the love movies. He told me he shall do everything in his power to make it work. He told me he ussualy forgets that he loves me so much. He is always busy and when he is at a quitte time he feels the love sometimes. He dont want to lose me etc. And i really believe that he meant it at the moment he said that. My answer was.. Ok but remember and dont forget your words and feelings anymore then. He said affcourse. sure. I was the happiest woman of the world.

Two days later i went to my mother. I was sleeping there for two nights. He did not tekst me. So i tekst hey everything ok?
Then he called me. Shouting that has a lot of problems on his head and how dare i claim him so much… i was embarassed for my family to hear so i said with a harder voice to go through him.. `Yes my mother is ok she is worried but feels good.!! Then he backed off and said ok hope she do well bye…

What a typically thing to do for a N!!! To call me when i am with my very sick mother and only shouting how many problems HE has so that all the attention and talk about HIM. Jalours on my attention that i give to my sick mother. Unbelievalble.

But the worst thing is yet to come. When i came home after two days. Did not hear from him for a view days. I was so depressed. I needed support for the situation with my mother. After days of intense greeve and tears mostly for the big quetions of this relation.. he came and told me he has something with a man. He is bi sexual. i knew that but this.. and just now? After those promisses with tears in his eyes? He said that i have to give him some time. Its only temporary..

Just when i get better as time went on. I did things again for myself and felt happy, he contact me again. and i fell in to his loving show and words.. then he dumped me again because he is so confused.
Then i wrote angree letters and did not hear from him till now. A week.

It is sooo very difficult to stay stuck on the NO CONTACT button.
There are so many situation through the day when i think of him. Things that remind my of him. I cant help to talk about him to people. He plays a role in a lot of storys because he is part of my history. Its hard to see the future without him. I am creeving a lost dream. We had so many plans holidays etc. I am not happy as love sick single on holiday. Maybe its only that. Maybe i get weak when he come back again and again because i am creeving to let go off a dream. Thats a proces. Takes time. When he comes back and the dream is still ist completly dead.. When he comes at that moment he makes everything alive again. Yess creeving time is gone. I feel alive again. We can work it out. We have gone through a lot so we are stronger then ever and then most couples. Its so difficult for people to understand this on and of relations who did not went through this.

Maybe its just a matter of time he contacts me again. But on the other side.. I stricktly wrote him never never to contact me again. And he is a very proud man. I dont know if i ever hear from him again. And if he does. i know that i am releeved and happy.
On the other hand that voice Dont do it!! I dont want to feel happy when i get a sms with kind words. I really dont want to.. Its like tempation. A snake. But i wont bite the apple again.

    Eden says October 26, 2014


    Good for you! I thought the same about my ex. He is very prideful too so I thought I would not hear from him either. He waited two months. I spoke to him by email and regretted it. When he couldn’t get his way the nastiness started again. He waited another two months and begged me to call. I did..and regretted it of course. He went off again, screaming, repeatedly calling (I forgot to block my new number when I called him so he had my # again), sent many emails saying horrible things. Then he apologized and wanted to be friends. He left me alone, only sending a text once a month to say hello and ‘miss you’. On the anniversary of his mother’s death he sent a text to remind me. I sent my best wishes and he took that as a reason to go one step further. Started sending me love songs. I wrote him and told him to never contact me again. He didn’t understand because he thought we would be ‘friends’ i only agreed to keep the peace but as I told you, when I thought about it I realized he had no right to have any access to me. He is no friend of mine! See, it was all a plan to slowly work his way back. He figured if he stayed away long enough I would forget his horrible words. When I showed him one OUNCE of kindness he proceeded to the next level of his plan by sending the love song. I know him well and everything he does is planned ahead. He plays chess with people. He thinks he is a master. But he has taught me the game so now I am always one step ahead of him. The irony! lol If I had replied to the song he would have been excited and asked for a call. So, I shut him down. Told him finally that I want to move on and hearing from him was preventing that and causing me pain. What did he do? Sent back a nasty email. His mask falls so quick when he can’t get what he wants. That was a month ago. I think this time finally he gets it. I hope. I’m sure he has convinced himself I am no good and he is better off..that way his ego can live with being dumped.

    We broke up 9 months ago and it has taken this long to get him out of my system to the point where I can have a normal life. I still think of him, sometimes daily. I find myself wondering if he learned anything from this, or wondering if he misses me sometimes. Which is dumb, but I still find myself wondering. I even feel sad still sometimes when I think of how much I loved him and what I lost. And all the good times we had, because he did treat me very well (u can read my her posts). I even miss him (the fake him) sometimes too. I believe its all part of the process. But I have finally accepted who he is and that he can’t and won’t change – and that there is no future for us. I think this is hardest part of the journey for everyone. Once you can accept this truth, that they will not change for all the love in the world then you are on your way. Whatever your faults are as a human being, they pale in comparison to what is fundamentally wrong with him/them. And a few happy moments is not worth the price you have to pay. Again, best of luck to you 🙂

Anonymous says October 26, 2014

Cameron was a friend and we were introduced via a mutual friend. Then he moved in as a flatmate and we were good friends (so I thought). Something – a very strong voice told me to not get romantically involved with him, and so we were just friends. There were a few times I wondered that he was coming on to me, , but I did a good job resisting his advances. He could be very supportive and I joked that he was a “woman whisperer” – a kind of guy that there was some reciprocity there – he could listen just as well as he would talk. He knew what to say…. After a couple of relationships he finally met Kym on a dating website and they made plans to move in together, except the date to move in got longer and longer… He ended up giving me one day’s notice and left me a mess and in debt, oh and a fishtank full of dead fish and his cat too….. I’ve left out a few things but I didn’t hear from him (except from his FB posts with Kym on their trip through Asia and Europe) and didn’t want to and was relieved that he had moved out..
It took me awhile to realise that Cameron was a narcissist. His “woman whisperer” persona was how he manipulated women – he had by now been fired from his job and he and Kym were arguing and he wanted to move back in with me. This is the same selfish shite who left me in debt with unpaid bills, and in the time that he had stayed in my house he had bought two investment properties and of course he also left me his cat. I feel like an idiot now, but the penny only really dropped for me about 5 months ago, about who and what Cameron really was.
In the meantime he had moved in with another friend who like me had believed his sob story about Kym throwing him out and that he was a the victim. She soon tired of his parasitic ways and attitude and I told him “no way” to him moving back in with me. We’ve both defriended him on all our social networks. He then moved in with his ex-wife and daughters – they’ve been divorced for 14 years. She then called me for advice on how to get him out of her house.
Finally Cameron is back with Kym – she took him back in the last week. I have the cat who is happy and thriving and settled and secure after surviving Cameron’s neglect.
That’s the thing, any female is going to be neglected if they are involved with Cameron in any way – friend, colleague, lover, boyfriend, father, son, brother. His sense of entitlement is scary.
All the females that I know who were involved with Cameron – except Kym, have gone the no-contact with him now and we are all communicating with each other as a kind of support group to maintain this no-contact. He is hoovering and still active and persistant about it even since he’s moved back with Kym. But we are on to him now. We know his modus operandi as well that he’s a narc.

Ellen says October 25, 2014

Hello Eden,

Thank you for your supportive kind words. Its lifting me up. Good to hear someone that does´nt Judge me because i love(d) him. Most friends dont understand that i came back over and over again. They get tired of it and i lost my best friend because of this.
I am at a point i dont cry anymore. But everywhere i go there is something thats remainds me of or laughter, our same thinking and taste of everything. Because we did everything together there is a lot of memories. I have to get distraction. Making new friends etc. No i am letting go. It hurts and its much easier and feels exteme happy if i should react. There is Always some way to give a sign of living. He knows i should drifting on pink clouds when he contacts me. He know this.

Ok nów i feel miserable and have to take myself up. But the real challenge is when he contacts me. Thats when there is an new born woman in me. I let the fragile weak women die in me and like a bird i break free and gonna be born again. I will be stronger than i did before.

( my friends should say now.. yeah right you Always say this)
And they are right. But because of al my reading and study this sites and now for the first time have someone talking back at me Eden, i feel supported. 🙂
Thank you for this..

Keep in touch.

    M says October 25, 2014

    Dear Ellen,
    You can’t imagine how many of us went (or are still going) through the same hell as you… This blog is one of the best I have ever found since I ‘woke up” in 2007, for reliable, thorough, and most of all not judgmental info. Only those who have been there can understand, even among the professional therapists. I consider myself in recovery, but my life is 500% better. Keep reading the posts here, signup for the newsletter, get some strength and confidence in yourself before you “jump off the cliff” and go No Contact. You’ll discover that you can fly, and there’s a flock of us ready to encourage and support you. You are not alone, you don’t need to do it alone.

    ck says January 14, 2015

    Omg the i cant believe i put up with my ex narc for a year and a half..he was a classic..he was insane to believe i didnt see his games but in my boredom..low self esteem and yes my own insanity i stayed..but in a weird way im happy i went through it because i know what one is and it will never happen again..and i learned alot about myself in the process..he will be turning 59 this year..its going to suck dying alone 😉

      phantommirage says July 16, 2016

      I guess the best ‘lesson’ to the narcs out there, is that they are going to wither away completely unloved and alone, and the N survivors thrive. It gives me hope that I won’t go through life worrying about how he’ll turn out – I know I’ll live fully and recover from my wounds eventually.

Stacey Horcher says October 25, 2014

WOW! Great insight about toxic narcissists! If only it were easier to spot them immediately!

Eden says October 25, 2014

Oh this makes me so sad to read. Ellen, if you dont mind me saying , I think your mistake was thinking you could be friends with this man. Think, after all he has said and done why give him the right to have access to any part of you and your life? He cant be a friend and you know this. You are afraid to let him go because you can no longer see who you are without him. Its a long, hard road but you have to start now at the bottom and work your way back to yourself.

In all you wrote what stood out for me is your son. He deserves a happy, whole mom who can take care of him. Any person who has the ability to bring you so low that you cant get out of bed to care for your children is a CANCER. He has got to go! If you cant do it for urself, do it for ur son. I know how you feel. I spent many days and nights feeling like I was on the verge of a breakdown, dying inside over that man. Loving and wishing for something that did not exist. The person you thought he was does not exist. The person who repeatedly hurts you is who he really is. And he will never change. Even if he sincerely wanted to he would have alot of work to do amd he could t be in a relationship whole he worked thru his issues. And most N’s dont have the will to face themselves. So u see, ur hope amd faith is a waste. Im so sorry to say this to u because I know how u feel.

But let’s say he calls or texts, then what? It will only be a matter of time before he does this again. Add his sexual confusion to the mix and you have a no win situation on ur hands. (Not to mention the danger to ur health as u do not know if he practices safe sex with his partner).

I know its the hardest thing to do but let go. Youre already at rock bottom so this is the perfect time to start. Why wait for him take you high again only to drop you back down? Change ur phone number, block his email and think of ur son as you do these things. You both deserve better.

Cry, scream, get up, hug ur son, cry some more…there will be months of crying and feeling good then feeling bad again, missing him. Its a process but eventually u will get there. ♡♡

Ellen says October 24, 2014

Hello, It is good to read en find people who can relate to this issues.
Myself When i look back and know all this now, i can say that i am recovering as we speak from the 3th N relationship. Before that a 8 year normal husband. I know now by reading much also from mr Sam Vaknin that i am a Invert Narcist and like most women of N have HSP High sensitive.

I am now working my way up from a breakup.
I was with him lived together in his house with a narcistic mother all day long in his house. Now i am living by myself. We should have a LAT relation. But.. after three days of loving promisses and announcements,` I do antything what i can to make this relation better bla bla, i never want to lose you, you are the best in my live. Never had better. `

After three days he was gone. Never picked the Phone up and answer my messages. Those where a lot!! I had PTSS at that time from it. Whole nights and days defastated.
After ten days he started answer and said that i have the right of the trueth and would tell me the day after. After again a night no sleep but now really heavy anxiety. He told me the other day he is having a relation with a man now!! I mean.. i knew he was a little bi but i know for sure he is not realy gay. He told me he knew this but that it was a flight and it never will last long. A new kind of rush he needed. I had a difficult time. Disbelieve hurt, angry, could eat or sleep and had no strenght to go even to the toilet. Broken.

But just when i get myself out of bed after two weaks of perralised in bed.. just when i started to take care of myself, looked good and accept it.. He texted me as a friend.
I thought it was good to have him as a friend because i have no friends here. In the relation we were Always together. No time or space for other people. We where too close and i was ok with that. So because i have no friends it is a good thing to have him just as a friend. He helpt me get some furniture i bought, and with putting a closed together. Helpt me with the car etc.. I was strong. He saw it. He was going on with this gay guy. This guy dont know him Sees only the glamour side of him and feels flatterd. But he finds out soon. But in the meantime we are just friend.

But.. then he tells me how happy he is etc. But i acting that ii was very strong and have gained lots of friends. Am happy and dance and sing now. I did that because i am sure he gets a kick out of it if he sees me broken on the floor. So i said i have a boyfriend also.He never said anything before the weekend begins. Never tekst me called me nothing. Because he is busy with himself going out do his thing. But now i have told that i have a boyfriend, he suddenly texted me `have a nice weekend`.. i did not respond. Al those weekends he never answerd my tons of textings never. I layed for houres in my bed thinking what to messages and read about N but he never respond. Now when i am so called happy and dont need him. He sms me at sunday `hope you had a nice weekend`… Then he called me and said he misses me and is confused about everything. Then i got weak again. First thougt no dont believe it.. But later i felt he was meaning it. I know his soul more than he does i believe this. But maybe this is illlusionall because its my Invert N speaking. Not reliable. So now i confessed that i miss him to and our love and laughter. And a view days later he says it dont feel good you go look for an other man. I cant make you happy. I am moving on…

So now i am back at day one again. It is deep in the night. He probably is out having revenge fun now. I am getting back up and know about a couple of days i am back me again. But i am so F´.. volanerble… I feel i am not over him yet. I feel i need him. When he gives me the feeling that i am ok . then i am flothing around a pink cloud. But the higher i fly the deeper and harder i fall. it feels like a heavy drugs that i am an addict of.
I need it. I forget everything. It eats me. I have no energy to look out of my son and cook and clean.. I am not alive anymore.

Now because i feel humiliated i send three long emails to him. Angry ones.Why he does those things. when he sees me strong wants me back just to see if he can. I am atractive when i look strong. Like a predator he catches me. Then he leaves me with a weak excuse. Why did i gave him this good feeling to have his way. I am angry with myself because i did not stay strong.

Now i wrote him yesterday those angry mails. After that an tekst said peace and have a nice life. Take care. So now i did not hear from him clearly.
Now i have anxiety from this al. There is much turbulence in my life now because of this.

I hope he sends me back something nice soon. But know in my mind rationaly that is not good, I dont have to need his approval that i am ok. But yet i do.

I am going to work on my INVERT NARCISM

I keep in touch how it goes when i hear from him.

Best regards Ellen

Cara says October 9, 2014

I can’t believe I found this page. Everything I’m reading is exactly what has been happening in my life. I thought I was the one that was crazy, not a good person, inadequate, didn’t make enough money, didn’t do the right thing, couldn’t keep it together. All my research and going back into therapy and now reading this page has helped me to understand it wasn’t me and there is never enough. He would have cleaned out my bank account, taken everything I had if I didn’t wake up and start questioning and realizing finally it wasn’t me.

I meet him 3 1/2 years ago, he was the most charming person I’d every met my soul mate. He liked every thing I liked. The sex was the most wonderful thing I’d ever experienced in my life. He was an attentive, passionate lover. He made all my needs his priority.

I started noticing things were shifting about 3 months after I met him. He would not keep dates and wouldn’t show up. He would borrow my car and put hundreds of miles on it. When questioned he would get angry and evasive. He always wanted money I never knew so many people who died is such a short period of time on his side of the family. Later I learned he was an x-con by doing research. Doing my research I found him on numerous dating sites. Then the telephone bill came in for the phone I gave him, here I saw he was communicating with 3 different women plus me. When I looked at the record of text messages by the thousands I was amazed he could keep them all separated.

He borrowed thousands of dollars he never paid back. I bought him 2 cars which were never good enough. I loved him beyond belief. I was his audience he was my life. 2 years into the relationship I found on facebook that he had moved in with one of the women on the telephone bill. I was devastated I couldn’t believe what was happening to me. He denied it for 9 months trying to convince me I was crazy. I was the one who had changed. Over time the demands became more intense, he lost more and more interest in me. I found him again on dating websites, 3 profiles on POF different ages, different names. He gave me 2 STD’s and still I was so in love I begged for more.

3 weeks ago when he turned away from me an pushed me away after I tried to kiss him I realized how sick and tired of the lies, the money, his absence, he never carried about me just used me for sex and money that it was really at the end I couldn’t take anymore. Then I got the silent treatment, he bought me a birthday gift put it in my back door but still would talk to me. We are still in silent treatment as a punishment.

I’m entering the no contact phase but still I want to talk to him. I’m working on why me, what made me his victim, how did I get here in this situation, how do I get out. I have some new answers and new pride in myself. I’m only sharing a part of what happened because I could write pages. Thank you for reading this and thank you all for what you have posted. It is time to heal! I’ve stopped for the most part questioning why understanding an N is like the Borg in Startrek no thought no feeling. Or the Terminator you can’t reason with them, they feel no regret, they feel no remorse they are sick and the pieces of the puzzle will never been finished, they will destroy your very soul.


    Kim Saeed says October 11, 2014

    Cara, I’m sorry for all the sorrow you’ve experienced. I know what that feels like.

    If you’d be interested in coaching to implement and maintain No Contact, I could also help you understand what made you his victim. Either way, you might want to try some of the healing tools here on the site, and check out the suggestions in my recent article,

    Best of luck on your healing journey!

    Anonymous says July 12, 2015

    Cara- it sounds like you may be codependent like I am. Your first paragraph described my soon to-be-ex narc perfectly! Soulmate, best sex ever (like he studied) and the ONLY man I’ve ever loved. I married him because he begged me to marry him two years into our relationship. He started popping pain pills right after the third year. The last four years together ( out of 8 ) were hell! Lies, lies, lies….. And sex halted to once a month. Like he was punishing me KNOWING I didn’t feel loved without physical expression on a regular basis. I just filed for divorce after 22 months of no contact because though He discarded me, he will NEVER file. I’m not talking to him, never begged him but it almost killed me. The worst emotional pain imaginable caused me to lose 30 lbs I didn’t need to lose. I looked like I was dying, no sleep…. Then one day, my roommate said,”he’s such a damn narcissist!” And a light went off!!!!! I researched NPD and sure enough- totally described my husband. Then I questioned how the hell I missed all the signs but then again, he’s smooth, charismatic, cerebral and a great actor. I think he believed he loved me until I called him a pathological liar. Then he hated me and even hit me twice and choked me once. It got ugly but I loved him so much, I forgave him everytime. Now I know he was never really sorry. I feel for you but IF you knew he was cheating on you and you stayed, get some good therapy and heal. You don’t want to attract another narc!!! May God help and heal us all.

Jason says October 8, 2014

Thanks you all for the helpful advise. Through talking with friends and learning about the situation i am in, i believe i will and can brave the storm. I found out of her web of lies when discussing the issues with mutual friends that had loyalty to me. It was insanely deep how she made others perceive me. Constant lies and manipulation of everyone around her. Some of the stories she told people about me, made me seem, cheap, needy, aggressive, highly emotional or flat out crazy.
All fabrications that held no truth or they held partial truths, but she withheld the reasons behind the actions. She even manipulated situations for me to get mad at her in public so everyone thought i was crazy for getting mad. Thankfully my friends noticed her awkward behavior and helped me put the puzzle together. The more i talked with others the more the web entangled. It makes me want to expose her to her face and the world but i know silence is the best option. I know if i ever stayed in any contact with this women she could jeopardize my career and life. What’s stoping her from saying i beat her or abused her? I would surely lose a battle like that in court, regardless of that she’s lying. She is very convincing to others and that is why the distance must remain permanent. Im still on the roller coaster of emotion but at least i know the ride has to end eventually. Thank you all for the advise and help. Its really hard for a guy like me to talk about issues like this.

To answer a few questions- i met her in a rough patch for both of us. A extremely stressful time in med school. I was attracted because i was in a new city on a new career path and she was funny, outgoing, caring and exactly my type physically. This is when she got her hooks in me. That person i first met disappeared after a month or two and thats what kept me trying so hard to make it work. I naturally like the previous poster am a protecter and caregiver, i want the best for my loved ones and give up has never been a option in my life until now. I was a confident guy and her confidence and ability to challenge me is what drew me in and kept me stringing along. Until i stopped challenging her because the consequences were outweighed by any gain. If i argued with her it would blow out of proportions and it would take weeks to rebuild the connection. Thus resulting in devaluation of myself and allowing her to walk over me. I learned my lessons over and over again until i was conditioned to not be my outgoing, confident self and be subservient to her will and desires. A sad reality but true and admitting what i have become is important to me.

Stay strong and thank you all for the advise.

Fellow Survivor says October 8, 2014

Jason, from one guy to another it ain’t easy getting over this. I was married for 23 years, knew her for 25. I have been physically separated for 2 years and one month. Officially divorced for 16 months and I still think about her every day.

So many times when the behavior was so odd I would think that is just the way woman are sometimes. But it became a pattern where I felt like crap for whatever reason with her put downs etc. I still think about her every damn day and even had a dream the other night that she came back into my life with an apology for her behavior. She had a new BF months before our divorce was even final.

If you are like me, we are natural protectors and want the very best for “the woman” in our lives. In retrospect all those times that she said ” if you can’t get me this or that i will find someone that will” I never really appreciated the fact that she meant it.

2 years out and some days I am still an emotional wreck some days. But that is better than being an emotional wreck every day like I was in the beginning.

Keep learning about this disorder and you will finally see the puzzle come together.

Eden says October 8, 2014

I just wanted to add when I say ‘what about you attracted her’, I didn’t mean anything negative in you. I think they see the vulnerability, the good in people and exploit it. I meant that sometimes really nice, trusting people lack adequate boundaries. I sure did And until I met him I didn’t know what a narcissist was so I had no reference. I dont think the average person getting into a new relationship has the skills to asses whether someone was a narc or not! So dont be too hard on yourself.

Jason says October 7, 2014

Does anyone have any tips on getting over a narcissistic ex? Or dealing with the pain of loss/heartbreak. Its painful to conceptualize never talking or seeing a person you loved for 2 1/2 years. Even knowing all the lies, pain and suffering she has caused me I’m still brain washed. (what i have done, journaled privately, discussed with close friends and family, deleted social media and phone number, haven’t spoken a word to her.) Any other advise would be greatly appreciated. I need to regain myself esteem, stop thinking everything i do is for her, never good enough ext.

Its a terrible brain wash these creatures put us through. I just want my old life back, my confidence, my goals, my dreams. I put her first in everything for so long i lost who i was and what i want.

Thanks for the forum and support, its a terrible experience taking off the rose colored glasses and seeing the “thing” you loved in its flesh.

    Kim Saeed says October 8, 2014


    It’s often the case that victims trying to recover will need the services of a professional therapist for clinical conditions such as PTSD, depression, childhood issues, etc., and then also work with someone who can help them understand and heal on a different level that’s often not addressed in traditional therapy.

    Recovery from this type of abuse literally takes a village…as well as dedication and consistency. You can check out my healing tools here on the site for starters.

    Best wishes from a former Narc addict…


      Eden says October 8, 2014


      I have to agree with Kim. I sought therapy for the first time in my entire life after I left my N. I felt like I was losing my mind! I didn’t go for very long because I couldn’t afford the expense but it was helpful. It took this woman repeatedly telling me that I was abused for me to get it. I kept going back to my feelings and not seeing the reality of what happened to me. You will find that you will have good days and then feel like youre back at day one. That’s normal. It takes time..and lots of self reflection. You have to ask yourself some tough questions, like what about you attracted her and why you allowed yourself to remain in the relationship for as long as you did. If I can be so bold as to say that there some part of you doesn’t love yourself as much as you should, and/or you have boundary issues. I found that to be the case with me when I dug really deep. I was surprised to learn these things about myself because I always thought that I had a healthy love for myself. But clearly, something in me allowed this man to keep doing some of the things he did, long after my spirit was telling me to run like hell.

      Its been 8 long months and I’m still not totally over it. Sometimes I get sad out of nowhere, sometimes I get pissed. Sometimes I miss him (because he was very good to me at times). I kept waiting for him to ‘get it’ and come running back with a sincere apology. But he always had something nasty or condescending to say. They just don’t get it. They lack the emotional depth for that kind of empathy..and to be truly sorry they would have to recognize that they are the cause of someone else’s pain. And since we know they don’t take responsibility for sh*t, don’t hold your breath.

      And its true what they say about NC. I relented once or twice and regretted it. let them back in in anyway and you will find yourself back at Day One, curled up in a fetal position. Cut all ties. You will never have a nice, clean ending. The pieces of this insane puzzle will never come together and you may never truly understand what she was thinking or feeling for you. and thats the hard part. You have to find a way to get your own closure. Cry it out, talk to friends and family, write it down, cry some more, talk to a therapist, read all about it, share your story..and day by day, piece by piece put yourself back together. Go inward. Love yourself and you will heal yourself. I’m sorry this happened to you/us. ‘Hugs”

    Anonymous says October 8, 2014

    Anon, my comments were taken way out of context. Understand that I was replying specifically to Matt. I am in no way shape or form insinuating that women narcs/borderlines are worse than male narcs. I never said ALL of them.. What I said was they OFTEN are. Like what was said above, men are generally taught to remain strong and cover their feelings more often, which is why men dont post as much. I am simply bringing awareness to the masses that women can be just as cruel, and in SOME cases (not all by any means, but some) can even be harder to get over. I know for a fact that my ex dated a narc for three years and also has a child with him, and I truly believe that the pain he caused her affected her so bad psychologically that she has taken it out on the men that have come after him. Sad, but true. But yes, I agree that both men and women with narcissistic disorders cause massive amounts of damage to the ones that cared for them. I was only with my ex for four months, continued being friends with her the next eight months, and I am still suffering psychological pain from the incident. We were long distance, and I seen her a grand total of five weekends is all. Granted, we spoke on the phone all the time, but you see what I am getting at. Even someone you only knew a short time can cause years of emotional damage. I meant no disrespect in my comments above, and I do apologize that it was taken that way.

Matt says October 6, 2014

I miss her. And even though I now know why, I still do.

Mine is such a stereotypical story its incredible. Shes the youngest of 5 with 4 older brothers. Her mum and split when her mum had an affair and left. When her dad met someone else she turned out to be the evil step mum to the point where she’d stub out cigarettes on her.(or so im told) To escape this situation she married an older man. She was 16 he 27. They stayed together for 14 years and from what I can gather within that time there were affairs, a suicide attempt and an episode of post natal psychosis.

We met a year after they split and to she was literally the best thing that had ever happened to me. Funny, sexy, passionate to the point where I believed shed taught me what sex was.

The red flags were there from the start. I tried to ignore them simply because I had no understanding of NPD at that point. I just sort of got used to listening to how wonderful she was, how everybody loved her, how all men wanted her. How she was never to blame and how I wasn’t really her type. I questioned and disliked the attention seeking but was educated to my insane jealousy. I put her growing abusive and physical temper down to myself and not being good enough for her.

However 18 months in we get to the facts that no matter how infatuated with her I was. I just couldn’t ignore

1. Id never been to her house
2. Id never met her children
3. Id never met her friends
4. I was blocked on her facebook
5. And most important “the lies” were driving me bonkers

This all came to a head when I found out she didn’t have 2 children she had 4! This was to much for me and I half heartedly ended things. 3 weeks later she called to drop off the key to my house and let me know she’d met someone on a dating site. He was a 6 “4 gym freak who made her feel safe and laugh until it hurt. My god do I wish id have left things then but it sucked me in. We got back together and she told me it was over with the other guy because he had a temper and used drugs. A week after getting back together I saw her getting in a car. I ran over and tapped on the window and was abruptly told to go away and the guy in the drivers seat was her brother. This is the point I look back on and realise I was so in love with her the rational part oif my brain stopped working. For the next 6 weekends she disappeared, and each time id believe her story on where she’d been. Then came the crack. I saw a photo of her brother online and realised it wasn’t the guy in the car. It took me 6 month to get the truth and within that time I went through the pain of catching her talking on facebook to a guy who she obviously had an affair with while married about how she’s never got over him, how great the sex was, how talking to him gave her goosbumps and made her wet. This and her finally admitting it was her ex in the car broke me. She still denied being with him on the weekends she disappeared but I couldn’t take anymore and ended it. The VERY NEXT DAY she called suggesting I look her up on facebook. She was in a relationship with someone new. Although you didn’t need to be a rocket scientist to workout it wasn’t new. I then had to endure the next 2 months. Daily posts to her family and the friends id still never met on how wonderful he was. How he was “the one”. The last man she’d ever kiss. Pictures of them in her bed and how much of a man he was between the sheets.

Im gonna stop now…. Its still to much.

    Anon says October 6, 2014

    Matt, I obviously don’t know you personally but I can guarantee you one thing…I WOULD NEVER TREAT YOU LIKE THAT. Why? Because it’s not WHO I CHOOSE TO BE. I bet lots of other women on this site would say the same thing to you. Why do I tell you this? To make sure you know that her behavior had NOTHING to do with you. Her sickness is ALL HER. No one makes anyone behave in disorder ways. They behave in disordered ways because they are disordered and much of that is a choice. MY choice to be a Christian and follow a moral path is what polices me to do right…EVEN when I know someone would “let me get away with” doing wrong. This whole crap about us ‘teaching others how to treat us’ is bogus and only applies to people who don’t carry around a moral compass of their own. Even the Bible says to not even eat with these people and ‘dust the sand off your sandals’ and don’t look back. When you meet the right girl, she will do right by you, not just because you are so great, but because she is so great inside and holds herself accountable to her own strict moral compass. You sound young. If you were in MA, I’d buy you a coffee and give you some mothering advice, LOL. This will have to suffice. Hope it helps.
    Oh, and this girl clearly sleeps around a lot. You don’t want to touch that and those diseases. Maybe you can meet a nice, pure girl in church. 🙂

    Jill says October 6, 2014

    Matt, you need to block her on FB. Why torture yourself reading her posts and seeing photos of her with this other guy. This would make it easier for you to move on.

      Anonymous says October 6, 2014

      Matt, I wanted to chime in, because I went through something kind of similar. Mine was a long distance relationship, and I also never met her friends, never met her kids, was also blocked from facebook, etc. Reading your situation makes me feel not so alone after all. She will do the same thing to the new guy. Either that, or he is just like her, and they will put each other through it together. She is either NPD or extreme BPD, but disordered for certain. It is terrible to read these things. How they can be so cruel to someone who cared. The reason is that they want you to hurt. They really do. She chose a guy like you, because she knew she could hurt you. Hurting you makes her feel better. It is her way of getting back at the people who raised her. She cant get back at them specifically, so she picked you instead. Mine stole $3,000 from me (borrowed it, and never paid it back, then blocked me when I began inquiring about it). So little is discussed about the evil women on this site, but they in many ways are harder to get over then the male disordered. I wish there were more male posters, because women with narcissistic traits are just as prevalent, and often more dangerous. In many cases, they are even harder to get over. I think disordered women make far better/effective liars then men in general, so the pain can be even worse for a male victim. Plus, women are by nature, more seductive then men. This gives them a great advantage over us. This woman you dated is pure slime. I really hope she gets hers in the end. I really do. I wish you well, my brother.

        Anon says October 6, 2014

        Anonymous, I find what you said to be quite unfair….
        “but they in many ways are harder to get over then the male disordered. I wish there were more male posters, because women with narcissistic traits are just as prevalent, and often more dangerous. In many cases, they are even harder to get over. I think disordered women make far better/effective liars then men in general, so the pain can be even worse for a male victim. Plus, women are by nature, more seductive then men. This gives them a great advantage over us. ”

        Even if you are bisexual and had a relationship with both a male and a female narc and that is why you feel you can compare the damage the woman did to you as worse than what the man did to you, it still doesn’t seem fair to say that all women narcs are worse than male narcs and therefore men suffer more damage than woman. Speaking as a woman who was ripped off of about $80,000 between the last two narcs/sociopaths I was involved with and who sweet-talked and seduced me and played Prince Charming so well they fooled everyone initially and then left me devastated and I’m still suffering from PTSD and on meds years later…well, it just doesn’t seem fair to read what you wrote. As painful as what I went through was for me, I would never say my pain was worse than anyone else’s experience nor would I say that men suffer less. Anyone who has dealt with a narc is changed and scarred forever, Period. And, as the mother of two children, my pain doesn’t end because now they have to see him by law and I know he is slowly doing his damage to them and they will end up in therapy like all of his other kids. This fallout is something I will deal with on a daily basis for the rest of my life and theirs and it breaks my heart. I am still in touch with my stepkids and was just holding one of them while she sobbed over the abuse he has inflicted on her. On top of that he lied on all his financials and Mr. Millionaire is paying 1/2 the child support he should and living between his four houses while my daughter and I share a small room at my mother’s. This man bullied me while I was pregnant to the point of me vomiting and having massive panic attacks, breathing into paper bags and begging God to end my life. If it weren’t for the baby inside me I may have done just that.

        Please do not underestimate the fear and trauma that a man can cause to a woman… and this is not even mentioning the physical violence from the first narc, pinning myself and my baby son to the bed by the neck. If my mother had not walked in, what would have become of us? Has a woman ever had you in fear for your life and the life of your children purely by her brute strength? Yes, male narcs are quite dangerous, too. Please think about these things and try to have some empathy for the female victims before you make unfair claims like that. Trust me, this is all said in love from one victim to another. I’m sorry for your pain. We victims should stick together and not pit males against females. How about narcs vs. normals? 😉 Hugs and healing to you.

        Anon says October 6, 2014

        Oh, and I want to be the first to say that my experiences pale in comparison to some women who have posted here and on other sites. I hope you will take the time to read other women’s experiences. I, too, wish there were more male posters. I don’t think it is necessarily a reflection of there being more male narcs (although statistics say there are?) but my guess is that men are used to going into their shells with their pain maybe? Anyhow, I’m glad both of you men are posting here. I know two men that have had narc ex-wives and they are crazy women…just as mentally sick as my ex.

    Julie says November 20, 2014

    Matt, reading your post has my stomach in knots. Your story sounds almost identical to mine. My ex was a 6’4 gym trainer with a drug addiction who recently told me he had reconnected with his sister. I have to ask you this…do you live in WA state by chance?

Eden says September 28, 2014

Hi Anon,

Yes, I told him finally a few months after we broke up in an email. Then cussed him out in August when we finally spoke again. He knows what I think of him. He said “basically, you’re describing a sociopath; I’m not a liar and I’m not crazy”. I’ve done tons of research and believe him to be a Covert Narcissist, which is a little more complicated, because he believes his own hype. Unlike alot of other stories I’ve read; he treated me pretty well for the 2 years we were together. Always bending over backwards to make time for me, make my career aspirations come true, a listening ear. He was verbally abusive during big fights, which happened rarely, and increased towards the end. He couldn’t take it if I countered his opinions or discarded his advice about MY life. He saw my strong, independent nature as a threat..that I would leave him. So he tried to make me dependent on him. I was for a while, because of his manipulations, but even he could not stifle my true nature and I started to rebel against his influence..even if it was well-meaning as he always claimed.

I told him that I believed he was a narc and pointed out all of his manipulative behaviors..and told him that unless he faced it and stopped pretending he would never get the love he seems so desperate for. He tried denying it, but I think what I said hit home and he has tried to make subtle changes in my absence. So, I think he sees ME as his saving grace. Because I got to see his good side (he has one). The one who really understands him. We had a very loving relationship, but it didn’t stop him from being manipulative and verbally abusive when he felt hurt or angry. I realized that all my love could not counter his dark side, so I left. And he is holding on, believing I am the love of his life.

He believes that I should return his devotion because in his mind he has never tried so hard with anyone. And that may be true but its still not good enough, obviously. For example, the other day, on the anniversary of his mom’s death, he sent a msg to remind me, adding that we should keep the ones we love close and that he misses me. I dont doubt it was a sad day or that he even missed me a little..but I also know that he probably PLANNED to msg me on that day to illicit the sympathy from me. He doesnt know how NOT to lie, seek attention (va social media) and manipulate. Its a part of who he is. All to cover deep insecurities and traumas. He’s a lost cause unfortunately.

    tiredofliars8 says October 9, 2014

    Eden your post could have been written by me. It really is tricky with a covert narcissist as they don’t do the really mean things and only do the rage thing occasionally. I raged more than him since he drove me crazy at times. My ex really really did try harder with me and I know this for a fact but it was always precipitated by me dumping him. he knows on some level I accepted him with all his weirdness even though I called him out every time. I also explained the whole NPD thing to him. He couldn’t deny the behaviors and traits fit. Mine definitely sees me as his saving grace and fought hard to have some kind of contact with me. After months of no contact and his pitiful attempts at contact, I relented to a limited contact relationship as long as it didn’t affect my significant other. He still sees me as his best friend. He tells me you have tons of friends to confide in and I only have you. I tell him he needs to explore why. Also with coverts they have moments of introspection which is confusing. He will never let me talk badly about myself ie if I say something about my part in our break up. Defends me! Manipulative probably but still…… Mine knows for sure his behavior isn’t normal but he feels people should accept him as he has good qualities like generosity and humor. He doesn’t get that manipulating and gaslighting hurts people. He never got how unwarranted Silent treatments are controlling and disrespectful. He does recognize there is a problem with his lack of empathy and admitted to me he fakes that emotion a lot.

      Eden says October 9, 2014


      i dont know how you maintain limited contact with him. I tried it. Everytime he sent a message just to say hey he would include ‘i miss you’ and it would send me back into the past, missing him and wondering why things couldn’t be the way we wanted. I sent him an email last week asking him not to contact me anymore. Feeling rejected, (we all know how they hate that) he sent me a nasty email. Even tho I know his MO I still get hurt by the things he says and he has this ability to make me question everything I know to be true about him. And even tho I know WHY it hurts so much that he doesnt understand how he has hurt me. He glosses right over it.

      So NC is the only way for me, or I end up mourning and missing him..and frankly after the things he’s said and done he doesn’t deserve access to me. Unlike your ex, mine doesn’t cop to anything he’s done. He lies and lies and covers with excuses and tries to deflect blame. Or if he apologizes he expects everything to immediately go back to normal. God forbid I have lingering doubts about him. He won’t even consider that he has ANY issues. He needs to be seen as perfect a all times. Even after he blew up and sent me 20 emails in a 10 hour period over the summer blasting my character and career failures, threatening me, he STILL had the gall to behave self righteously when I asked for no contact. “I thought we had resolved our differences. I keep giving people more maturity points than they deserve”. So condescending. I loathe and love him simultaneously. Everyday its a struggle to get back to myself and he has caused so much emotional damage. Just when I think I’m good, here he comes. I dont know if or when I could ever be with someone new.

      Best of luck to you. Thanks for sharing 🙂

      RodMan says October 10, 2014

      Sounds like this man may be a male borderline as opposed to a classic narc. Based on your description, that is what it sounds like to me. Interesting.

      Anonymous says October 10, 2014

      Interesting comment. He does have borderline traits as well. I know borderlines have huge abandonment issues and the fact that I kept leaving him made him much more desperate to have me but narcissists hate when you abandon them as well. They need to abandon first. He also has the impulsivity but again don’t narcissists? The reason I feel he is classic Narc is the grandiosity, fear of intimacy, lack of empathy, and behaviors he exhibited like gaslighting, triangulating, crazymaking. I don’t know enough about borderlines but they do say narcissists usually have something else with their disorder ie sociopath narcissist, sex addict narcissist…..maybe he is a borderline narcissist.

        Kim Saeed says October 11, 2014

        Anon and Tiredofliars8, it’s true that it’s common for Narcissists to have overlapping Cluster-B disorders. For example, he could be a Narcissist and Borderline, too (or vice versa). I’d say, as a survivor, that the important thing is to work on healing ourselves as opposed to trying to understand Narcissism so deeply. We do that because we are looking for closure and validation. Although educating ourselves about the disorder is important, there does come a time when continuing it can hamper our healing efforts because it leads to perpetual triggering. What are you doing in the self-care area?

      RodMan says October 10, 2014

      Eden, in response to your question: I was responding to tiredofliars8 specifically (just in case you thought I was responding to you). I say this because my ex was an undiagnosed BPD. There is a tangible difference between BPD and NPD, even though the symptoms and the way the victim feels is similar. The basic difference (from all my obsessive reading and studying on this behavior) is that BPD’s can feel empathy at times. Usually they are very emotional people, but their emotion is so great, that they find it hard to see where you are coming from simply because they are constantly dealing with their own inner turmoil. Also, my ex rarely put me down as well, and quite often spoke highly of me both to my face and to others (from what I gather). Yet, she would pull the silent treatment, disappear on me, cancel plans at the last minute…etc. Basically, she was a “runner.” She ran away from all her problems and responsibilities. If you caught up with her about them, she would generally express remorse and apologize. She would tell me how things she did to me would make her “sick to her stomach,” etc. Still, the deeds were the deeds. About 95% of the time we got along terrifically and truly enjoyed each other’s company. The other 5% was excruciatiting to deal with though, and left me more more confused than if she had simply just been mean most of the time.

      That is what I meant when I say this type is often harder to get over. They can be so sweet and giving when they want to, yet completely break your heart when it often matters most. I dated a true narcissistic woman years before her, and this person hurt me as well, but she was easier to see coming and her “meanness” made her easier for me to get over her. This one I am still dealing with has been a nightmare to come to terms with from an emotional standpoint. I still find myself missing her quite often, but I don’t want to make it look like I am trying to give this woman credit by any means. Borrowing my hard earned money and then disappearing a month later without paying me back, and blocking me from social media is inexcusable and unacceptable. I just wish it was easier for me to understand her intentions. She had more than enough chances to make up for these acts, yet chose to move on to the next guy and start over from scratch. I am certain she has done this over and over and over. In any case, tiredofliars8 and I sound like we went through a lot of the same kinds of things with a very similar personality type.

      To all the women and men who have been victimized by any of the cluster B personality disordered types, my heart truly goes out to you. It really takes a long time to process this stuff. Even when we know it is not our fault, and start to see things clearer, there are still those days where it hurts like it was yesterday. Believe me, I understand and feel your pain.

        Jill says October 10, 2014

        I often wonder why after all the horrible things Narcs do to us why we can’t hate them? Does that say something about us? For the life of me, I can’t figure it out.

          Eden says October 10, 2014

          Jill, hate is a very strong emotion. If you are a loving person it is almost impossible to hate anyone. If you think about it, it’s what separates us from them.

          RodMan, thanks for your insight. My ex’s dad is schizophrenic and so is one of his brothers. I think he has a touch of something. I think he knows it on some level because he works so hard to be different and ‘spiritual’. I think the little bit of spirituality he does have is the only thing keeping him from going completely over the edge.

          Kim Saeed says October 11, 2014


          We can’t hate because that’s not part of our makeup. However, a large part of the reason we feel an attachment is often because of trauma-bonding and the mental/physical addiction that occurs as a result of emotional abuse and manipulation.

          Another part of the equation is the fact that, in my experience, every person I work with (and myself included) is or have been highly codependent.

          All of these factors are a recipe for disaster and are why it’s so extremely difficult to detach.

          Jill says October 13, 2014

          Hi Kim, thanks for your input. I agree. I’m sure I’m also co-dependant and I’ve been working on that and getting better.

          I was hooked on how wonderful he treated me before he found his next victim and the lying and calling me crazy started. I was in love with the way he made me feel. I also fell for his creativity and intellect. We had some good times together. It’s difficult to comprehend that the person I was with was an imposter. That’s the tough part. I miss that person.

          As for him, I outsmarted him and received closure. Knowledge is power and when I confronted him and told him I had figured him out and listed his Narc traits, he was blown away and I actually think that he is afraid of me now. However, he did do the “character assassination” and tried to make me look like the crazy one.

          I told him I really didn’t care what he said about me because I know who I am and happy with myself. I called him a lost soul. I think that hit a nerve. I also told him that when he met me, I was very vulnerable because my mom was dying. I must have had sucker written on my forehead. But that I really didn’t care, because at the time, I needed the support that he gave me and even though it was fake, it got me thru it. The long talks we had and the support he gave me even though he did that to make himself feel good, really helped me at a time when I was at my lowest. I told him that I have forgiven him because I am a good person and because I pity him. He is always looking for the ideal love but he will never have love in his life. He is just an empty shell. I said goodbye and told him that I hope I had made an Impact in his life in a good way and that he has learned something from this just as I have. He did some terrible things to me but I have a big heart and I also realize that he is sick, so I forgave him. My words to him we’re “I forgive you because I know you are a tortured soul.” I hope you get some help because I think you have a lot of potential. You need to work on your self worth”. Those were my last words to him. He looked hurt but I’m glad I was able to say that to him because it provided closure for me. Months later he emailed me saying he wanted to connect. I told him I would see him only if he would open up to me and be his true self. Never heard from him again.

      Fellow Survivor says October 10, 2014

      In response to Jill’s comment, Oct 10 at 9:31 PM

      Jill, there was something broken in them that we wanted to try and heal or at least help them through. That brokenness that we originally recognized is still there and it is just not fixable by mankind. So we see the damaged person still walking around “cloaking” their pain and we feel for them. We still feel their pain and still want to help them

      When I was a kid, like 5 years old or something my best friend had a German Shepard dog as a pet. His dad just loved that dog more than anything. One day that dog bit my friend, at the time a 5 year old kid. The next day that dog was gone. Although the dad loved that dog more than anything, it was a threat to his family now and he had to get rid of it. There is no difference than that dog and our beloved Narc. They are a threat to are well being and we have to keep them away from us although we still love them in their brokenness.

        Jill says October 10, 2014

        Thank you Fellow Survivor, that makes a lot of sense. I did and still do feel sorry for my Narc. He is a tortured soul. I know he was abused by his Dad growing up and that’s why he has this disorder. I did try to fix him. I wanted him to get better. But I really don’t think there is hope for them.

        Thank you also Eden. Perhaps hate was too strong a word but even after going through hell with him and seeing who he really is, I can’t understand why I still think of him.

      chely5150 says December 7, 2014

      Pretty much same story, different couple. It is sooo difficult when they are the “nice” narcissist. Mine doesn’t do many of the overtly mean things that people write about. No he way too skilled to do it that way. Prefers the I’m so much better/deserve more than you attitude. While playing the “victim” all along. Very skilled at the manipulation. And I have allowed it to go on for a very long time (can you say C-PSTD). But the actual discovery of an affair (long term plus who knows what else) and this last year of attempting to reusitate my marriage, has allowed me to see him and his behaviors much clearer than before. Prior to discovery after fights, he would seem truly remorseful and we wouldn’t split up. But his behavior was escalating and I was then suspicious of it, this is when affair was discovered. He initially said he wanted a divorce, I said fine “but your gonna pay” (married 20 years – yeah I know pretty stupid) and so we never split up. He said he was enlightened by some of my comments (I told him he was turning into a dirty old man, a pervert-he didn’t like that mirror at all) and still loved me wants to stay together. I believed him at first. But he’s become a different person now that I know about his affair. Where he used to be able to (really well) fake his love etc. for me, it now has taken on a hollow feeling, he is doing it but only because he doesn’t want his charade to end and everyone find out about his true persona as well as not have to split assets with me (cheaper to keep her) and I think he is a coward -wants out but just can’t be the bad guy: NEWS FLASH HUSBAND-YOU ARE THE BAD GUY! So pretty sure this last year has been my “growing beyond his crap” year, so I could be strong enough to leave him in my dust. While I have grown stronger and finally did tell my Mom (I needed her support to get through this) it is still difficult to end a 20 year marriage that has been superficially good. Like it’s been said before in cases like mine, wouldn’t of stayed this long if it had been overtly abusive but there was a fair amount of good and before my discovery he could fool me with his emotions which seemed real. He has gotten worse at his acting or I have gotten better at seeing through the crap. Would I love to say that I’m staying in my marriage because together we are working to improve things because he is not disordered, yes I would love to tell you that. But sadly I don’t see that happening. What this last year has done for me is start to see him for he really is and allow my love for him to begin to wither and die. Has it been easier than just having him up and leave? In some ways yes and it some ways no. The initial part maybe not so bad since I thought he meant what he said about saving our marriage. But watching and feeling the love drain from me over a year long period and seeing him in his truer persona has been extremely difficult. Pretty much I’m trying to get those ducks lined up because I see the end in my not so distant future. So dear friend I understand how difficult when it appears to the rest of the world that you have a great partner and marriage when you know the reality of it all. No one will really understand why I leave but it no longer matters to me what others think, they have not lived in the cloaked hell that has been a 20 year prison. Warden I now have the keys!!

        tiredofliars8 says December 7, 2014

        I read once that the nice narcs are truly wolves in sheep clothing. I think of them as masters of the game. They rarely let their mask slip completely. Their weapons of choice are silent treatments and deflection. And yes they can carry on affairs for many years without getting caught. My N admitted he cheated on his wife the whole time he was with her. He had a steady and other liasons. Of course I found that out much later. He swore he was totally loyal to me….yeaaa right!

          chely5150 says December 7, 2014

          Yes loyalty is NOT their strong suit that’s for sure. I just had a kinda lengthy reply typed here and computer booted me out before I cound send-dammit. And It’s just not coming out the way it did before. But basically I’ve finally realize the only way for me to grow and live is to leave him. I will survive.

          tiredofliars8 says December 7, 2014

          You will survive and you will give yourself the opportunity to find a healthy love. You cannot have a healthy relationship with a Narc. You spend your time with a Narc analyzing, investigating and trying to fix them. Even when things are good you feel like you are standing on quicksand. When you leave you gain a great gift. Peace… I wish you luck. 🙂

          chely5150 says December 8, 2014

          Thank-you for your kind words. Even when you know what you should do, doesn’t always make it easy. But I’m just taking it one day at a time, but you are right I will survive – I do know that. Thanks!

    tiredofliars8 says October 9, 2014

    Eden I would do total no contact in your case as well. I am out over 5 years and the first few years post break up were torture. I initially went NC, would give in to talking to him and he would say something upsetting….back to NC. It was a crazy roller coaster. I was obsessing about him even though my life was going well. I had the good fortune to meet someone shortly after my final break up. I know if he hadn’t come along I would have gone back for more. My ex treated me like a queen when he wasn’t being a crazy maker but I knew something was terribly wrong. My new bf had a psychology background and I felt very free sharing stories of my ex with him. After telling him yet another crazy story about him, my bf informed me I had been under the clutches of a classic Narc. It changed everything. Once I started reading about it I was in shock. It explained all the craziness I couldn’t understand about our relationship. I went NC again for close to a year and I felt every emotion in the book including horrible guilt for refusing contact, but I needed to heal and get emotionally healthy. When we finally talked I explained to him the reasons I couldn’t talk to him and he actually understood although he initially fought the NPD diagnosis. Lol I can talk occasionally with him now because I accept he is a Narc. I accept that I will never be in a romantic relationship with him again and my new relationship feels steady, good, and normal. Love is not pain! I also recognize the peace I feel would not be if we were anything more than what we are. He accepts my terms which are…no triangulation with his new paramours, no lying, no declarations of love and no meeting in person. I still care for him and he does actually try to be a good friend ie if I have a problem etc. if I feel at all uncomfortable I would not hesitate to go NC but for now limited contact has worked for last few years.

      Eden says October 10, 2014


      What makes you say that?

      Tara says December 8, 2014

      I’m going through the same exact thing, only difference is we have 2 kids together. I keep going back and forth and only keep hurting myself over and over. Just remember, the average person leaves their emotional/physical abuser 7 times before actually fulling walking out on them!

    tiredofliars8 says October 10, 2014

    Rod man interesting on your borderline comment. I don’t know much about borderlines but I do know my ex fits most of narcissist diagnosis without the nastiness. Wow it really is hard to process it all and yes so hard to get over it when a lot of the relationship was so good. Again acceptance he was disordered helped me find peace. My heart does go out to all of us affected by these crazy makers. We analyze to death just to understand. Eden I hope you heal and acceptance that it was never about you will help. There is someone good out there for you that won’t drive you crazy. Rod thanks for your input. I’ll have to look into.

      Margot says November 15, 2014

      Eden and tiredofliars8, WOW the idea, that he is possibly the BPD (borderline) came to me while I was reading the story. Even though, I don’t have time right now to go through RodMan’s comment, here are my thoughts. As soon as I read, ‘he treated me like a queen when he wasn’t a crazy maker’ the BPD read signalled in my brain. Why? The statement suggests, that the person was switching back and force from ‘idealise’ and ‘devalue’. Narcs and Psychos don’t do this. Their pattern is idealise, devalue, discard. They may hoover, but that’s another story. Also, the idea, that he fell right into the NPD diagnoses, but without the ‘nastiness’. NPD’s CANNOT BE WITHOUT NASTINESS. Yes, Kim is right, the label doesn’t matter, but the healing is important. I have observed, however, that it depends on the person, how much they should know to heal. If you wish you can go to Dr. Simon ‘Manipulative people’ , at least to BPD. Part 1 and Part 2 are equally important to read. Two very short and plainly written articles (but you’ll want to read more ). Two types of BPD: 1. genuinely don’t mean it, but cannot stop. PLEASE, DON’T TAKE IT AS AN EXUSE, NC should be implemented, because WATEVER INTENTIONS ARE ONE CANNOT STAY IN RELATIONSIPS WITH BPD. Type 2: they manipulate knowingly and enjoy it. This so-called behavioral approach is new and very different from those traditional ones, that emphasise ‘subconscious insecurity and the “lack” of ‘self worth’ in NPDs. Also, watch his videos (sorry cannot provide the links, but you’ll find them).
      Also, relationship between the BPD and NPD. In DSM – more traditional view – they both go to Cluster B, alongside with few others. (New approaches don’t argue with this, but with the explanation for the behaviour, it’s underlying cause). So, having read on all these since 2009 so far, I concluded, …THIS IS MY VERY SUBJECTIVE CONCLUSION, I WOULDN’T TELL ANYONE TO TAKE THIS AT THE FACE VALUE….. all Cluster B disorders COME WITH NPD ANYWAY. There is also pure NPD. All of them and NPD comes with varying degree of Psychopathy (DSM replaced this term with ASPD, to be politically correct, and the NPD is in the queue to be eliminated as official diagnosis….uffff). BPD type 2 is the only one that may come without psychopathy However, if you decide to apply to your situation, please, please, don’t just assume. For ex, I mentioned above, that NPD and Psyco’s don’t go back to ‘idealisation’ after the devaluing, but they may switch back to “good behaviour”, from time to time, if they still need the pray (because not all is sucked out of the person yet). In other words, they may sometimes treat you well, even though you’ve been discarded since long ago and you may not even realise it. So, you know better about your situation.

      tiredofliars8 says November 16, 2014

      Margo. Wow….I have to check out Dr Simon manipulative people. He really does seem to be a mix of both. Thanks to you and Rodman. I think in some weird way I keep contact to somehow get to the bottom of it. He proves his disorder with most of what he tells me. He feels comfortable confiding in me and it’s like getting into the head of a Narc. The borderline traits answers a lot of questions for me. Thanks Kim for this wonderful blog. Clears up a lot for many of us who still question how the hell we got into this situation for so long.

    Kris says May 1, 2015

    You are so right, Eden. I also went out with my narc (or so I think) for two years. Most of the time, he was very good to me, but the few times when I would disagree with him, he would get very upset and turn things around on me. Before I learned about narcissism, I just couldn’t understand his Jekkyl and Hyde behavior…I’ve been four months no contact, and he hasn’t tried to contract me once, which hurts me a lot, even thought I should be happy. I think he was very injured when I didn’t reply to his Happy New Years text. He is 42 and has had a string of relationships that always end…I miss talking to fault and and spending time together. We were like best friends. Something I catch myself thinking, “Maybe he isn’t a narcissist?” but then I remember his verbal abuse. And he was abused my his father as a child, so I feel sorry for him. What should I do?

    JJ says October 7, 2015

    Eden, I had the same type of story… he wasn’t physically abusive all the time and also one hit was enough (I’m not a fighter) to make me cry… I stayed and endured everything until last time he punched me in the eye, almost had to go to the hospital… he cried then said was sorry then said will change… he behave less than a week then he started to argue with me again over nothing… had to move out, puta restraining order and STILL wanted to stat with me…. at this point I had to do the “no contact” or else who knows, I would be okay until he explode again…. theses narcissists are like time bomb… he got your pity when the relative passed away. Be careful Eden

Anonymous says September 27, 2014

Eden, the nerve they have popping in and out and around our lives like nothing is soooo unsettling and weird to the norm, but he is not normal so he would probably in his mind (which we know does not function properly) feel it is ok. That is what sets us apart from them.

    Anonymous says January 14, 2015

    Hi omg the narc i saw for an unbelieval year and a half was insane to think i didnt see it..but in my bordem and insecurity and to be honest my insanity also i put up with him..all he had going for him was his looks..but im in a weird way im happy i went through it..i learned alot..about what one is and about myself..hes turning 59 this year..its going to suck dying alone 😉

      We all die alone. That's exactly what my histrionic disordered ex said to me. Of course she was wrong, again. says May 23, 2015


      Samantha says June 3, 2015

      So interesting to read everyone’s stories. What confuses me the most is how my ex tries to get me to contact him first before he would, say hallo usually by text. Till this day I do not have prove that this is his way of getting me to contact him, but I have seen a pattern. First there would be two or three private missed calls, I do not answer private numbers. Then after a month or so of me not answering he would send a text “hey how are you?’ I told him to leave me alone this time for good which was hard, but now seven months later I got a missed call from the his previous job. He doesnt work their anymore but I know that number well since he use to phone me from work. Do narc do stuff like this, get you ready for their return by leaving clues like that? Like I said I dont have prove yet and dont want to ask him, just for my sanity I was wondering If they do stuff like this? His friends still works their, so he could have asked them to call. I think why I am asking this , is because he used to accuse me of overreacting all the time and being clingy. Do they send clues or try to spy to see if you are still alive?

Anonymous says September 27, 2014

Thanks Anon, if he only cares about appearances why is he so indifferent to losing the material things he once treasured so highly?? Also, how can you move in with someone you have not had sex with?

    Anon says September 27, 2014

    Anonymous, I guess some people could do that. As a Christian, I don’t want to have sex until I am married but I also wouldn’t move in with someone either. IF it’s true, and that is a BIG IF, she may just stroke his emotional ego sooo much that he doesn’t care. I doubt it though as these people just don’t make sense and I hate to see you torture yourself trying to make sense of the senseless. My ex claimed he wasn’t having sex with his new supply six months after they got together. At that time, during dropping off my daughter to him, he grabbed at my breasts claiming he still owned them cuz he paid child support. (Yeah, that’s true…sick f*ck that he is.) When I rebuked him and told him his gf wouldn’t like that then he said they weren’t sexual. Seems to me it was a lie to keep the door open and to justify his sick advances. Also, if you had ever mentioned to him that you thought he was too materialistic or too sexual then the first thing he wants to do is rub it in your face how he has changed for the new supply. Don’t buy it. And maybe that is not the case but my guess is the narc is trying to reinvent himself on the surface to impress the new supply but you and I both know who his TRUE self is inside. Remember, they start our trying to be what you want and then show their true colors over time. Most likely, this new supply wants a non-sexual, non-materialistic guy so he is putting on the act for her and may even buy his own press. Again, take everything he says with a grain of salt. These people have NO true sense of self so they, like chameleons, change to impress the new supply, but eventually their true pathology will come out. Just stay away and let the new supply figure it out for herself. Hope that helps.

      Anonymous says September 27, 2014

      Thankyou for your advice. This man i was with for 20 years cant possibly be best friends with the new girlfriend of 7 months.

Eden says September 27, 2014

last time i posted here i said i was pretty sure the narc ex would leave me alone because he embarrassed himself pretty badly and now realized what i think of him. well, i guess i still have a lot to learn! its been a month and he popped up again. sent me a love song via email. can’t block so i guess i will filter his msgs to trash. part of me doesn’t want to do that because i want to ‘see him coming’ in the event he tries something. will he ever just go away for good? he really believes he loves me. and maybe he does in HIS way but why won’t he let go.

its like he’s two ppl. the person he would be if he didnt have mental issues (which is loving, and giving, sweet, romantic..)..and this ugly monster that he tries so hard to cover up and keep at bay. its all so very sad.

    Anon says September 27, 2014

    Eden, I haven’t read all your posts….did you ever tell him he was abusive? That did the trick with my ex. I nicely asked him for respect and told him what he was doing was verbally abusive. Suddenly, all his ‘love’ for me was gone and he ‘couldn’t trust’ me ‘anymore’ (which was a joke since he never trusted me even though I never did anything to this man but Narcs never trust anyone because they project themselves onto everyone and know that they are not trustworthy). Anyhow, I have heard others say that the way to get them to Devalue and Discard you for good is to call them out on their behavior and who they are. Worked for me when I wasn’t even trying. 🙁 Ultimately, he divorced me saying that he could not be with anyone who saw him as his abuser. Think about that for a moment. I’ve posted it here before but I think it warrants repeating. This statement shows the true colors of a narc…not whether or not they are guilty of what you accuse them of as they will never have a real discussion about that…but now they are the victims of you ‘unfairly’ saying they are abusive and tarnishing their fake reputation. Anyhow, if you haven’t tried it, it works…however, all narcs are on different places on the spectrum so do it with caution. Mine caused me two years of terror before divorcing me. Yours might just slither away to the next supply. I hope it’s the latter for you!

Anonymous says September 27, 2014

Thanks Kim, could it be because he is about to lose the family home and go bankrupt. This man was very materialistic with me, loved the best of everything and now he is willing to go bankrupt. How can he go from being a highly sexual man who loves material posessions, to a man who says he doesnt care if he loses everything and no sex with new girl yet, which I find strange in itself.

Anonymous says September 26, 2014

My ex narc recently started calling and texting after 9 months of silence. He said he is happy with new girlfriend but thinks it would be good for us to be friends for the kids sakes.

He told me they have not had sex yet and that their relationship of 7 months started as friends, then best friends then relationship.

This is the he sent me: Text me when you get home and I will call you back. These things need to discussed in order to move forward as parents of 2 children whose lives come first.
If they can see mum and dad as friend they will be much better off for it.
So please let me know when you get home and I will call you back.
I need to know where you get your information from because if it is different to my source then perhaps I should be seeking a second opinion or maybe you should.
Let me know hey.

Can anyone give me some answers as to why he is so interested in contact if he is so happy and moved on. I told him there was no need for us to have contact and he said “for the kidsxsakes”. He said there is no need to block each other, mind you this is after 7 months of silence and blocking from him. I also asked him to take my photos down of me on his facebook page and he said NO, why feel the need to keep them up??

NEED ANSWERS – Kim Saeed, got anything that makes sense??

    Kim Saeed says September 27, 2014

    Gotta be honest, sounds like the same line of bologna that Narcs learn in their secret society.

    “Happy with girlfriend, but thinks you guys should be friends” Translation: Something’s not on the up and up and/or he has discovered some way that getting back in touch with you will benefit him. There’s also the possibility that he wants you as a secondary source of supply.

    “Wants the kids to see you both as friends”. Translation: The girlfriend may have said something to him about why he doesn’t seem to care about his kids; or there is some kind of benefit for him if he comes back around and inserts himself into their lives after being gone for so long. There’s a reason here that may not be obvious, but it’s not due to a sudden change of heart.

    When they try to come back onto the scene after a long stretch of silence, they have been scheming. Regarding your FB pics, you could try marking them as spam and then consider removing him as a friend if you haven’t already.

    This so-called questionable source may be because he has lied about some stuff and it’s his way of trying to backtrack.

    All of these behaviors you’ve listed are par for the course. I went through them myself, and also hear about these same Narc behaviors from my clients.

      Anon says September 27, 2014

      Anonymous, I think Kim is right. My ex pulled the same crap. My take has always been that because he needs for everything to “appear” okay to make himself look good then of course he wants you to smile and act nice and be ‘friends’. Yet, how can you be friends with someone who is so evil? Remember, they are narcs and only care about appearances. My ex used to brag about how well he and his ex got along. She would even bake him pastries which used to kind of piss me off. Now her and I are friends and I found out these were peace offerings so that he wouldn’t pull his nasty games with her. As she said, “He teaches us all how to behave.” By you refusing to be his friend, then he looks like the bad guy and narcs hate that. If you will just “act” like his friend for the sake of his image, then all will be well in his fake world. My ex wants me to do the same and I refuse. I’m sure the new girl has questioned him about this and of course they can spin it to look like you were the b-tch all along or that you are jealous of his new ‘love’ but one day she will see the truth and my guess is she has already and will be adding 2 and 2. I know that my ex’s new minion is seeing the truth now firsthand. Narcs can’t hide their true selves for long. Stay strong and don’t give in! OH, and for the kids’ sake I believe you SHOULD stay distant from him. Others might disagree with me but if you act all nice with him you are actually showing them to take his abuse and forgive when no forgiveness was asked for nor any repentance shown. I think too many people take this “don’t demonize the other parent” bit too far. If the other parent is a demon then we have a moral obligation to let our kids know the truth. I don’t mean telling the kids the gory details cuz that would only hurt them but when they ask you can certainly say some high level stuff. And trust me, one day they will ask because as they get older they will start to question his craziness. I’m dealing with that now. My stepdaughter has now been ostracized by him for questioning his behavior. Her mom and I have let her know she is not alone and this is HIS problem. We don’t use the Narc word but let her know that she is blameless and that it is ALL him. She sees that we only deal with him when we have to and even then he is difficult. Narcs will ALWAYS hang themselves when you give them enough rope. Stay strong and don’t disrespect your own integrity by acting like his friend for his ego’s sake! That’s the last thing anyone needs…including him! Let his sin be known and refuse to cover it up for him like he wants you to! Stay strong!! HUGS!!!

      Anonymous says January 12, 2015

      Kim, you were right ?

      They broke up a week before the contact but he was still pretending they were together, sick really!! They lasted 5 months and yes, she ended it, smart girl!!!

Margot says September 19, 2014

Dear all, there is a lot to learn from all of you. Thank you. On my part I wanted to mention so-called ‘behavioral’ approach to ‘character disturbances’. If you Google Dr. George K. Simon, you’ll get plenty of useful information. This methodology – behavioral, is used in many scientific fields, mine for ex. I find it particularly appropriate to the field of psychology, cluster B, in specifically (Ns, Psych, etc.). Of course, there is still a lot to doubt and discuss. However, what is very convincing to me is HIS COMPLETE DISMISSAL OF SUBCONCIOUS/UNCONCIOUS, AS AN EXPLONATORY TOOL FOR BEHAVIOUR OF THESE CHARACTERS. Just read it and also watch the videos. The reason I am bringing it up here IS NOT TO DISCARD ANYTHING ELSE, BY NO MEANS, IN FACT I’LL ASK YOUR OPINION IN OTHER POSTS. It’s just, that I noticed to many explanations based on ‘they are insecure underneath’, ‘deep down’, etc. His point is, that the traditional psychoanalytical approaches are very much applicable to all the ‘neurotics’ (people with emotions, insane or healthy), BUT NOT THE ‘DISTURBED CHARATERS’, BECAUSE ‘DEEP DOWN’ IMPLYES THEIR ACTING ON SUBCONCIOUS, AND THESE CHARACTERS KNOW EXACTLY WHAT THEY ARE DOING, THUS ACT CONCIOUSLY. Why is this important?? to know how to deal with them.
Thanks and will be posting, asking your opinion.

Jill says September 19, 2014

LOL! Narcs are about as predictable as flies on dog poo. We survivors are only a little LESS predictable in how we are slowly destroyed from within.

We also heal in pretty much the same way, at first. That’s why EVERYONE gets a bottle of No Contact at the door. 🙂

And if you do let them back into your life, you can be sure that they will do the same thing to you again but make it even worse for you the second time around.

I had heard that Narcs don’t know what they are but I think deep down they do. So what I did to mine was send him articles on Narcissism and asked him to read then and to also read the book “The Sociopath next Door”. He went crazy and called my place of work and complained that I was harassing him from work (they all do this by the way)! Luckily it did not affect my work record because I spoke to the HR person who had studied psychology and new all about Narcs!! Once they know you are on to them, they will do everything possible to shut you up.

Narcissists live in denial of who they really are. Sometimes you have to expose them because that may be the best way to make them realize they need help. Even though he struck back with a vengeance, I think I outsmarted him and that makes me feel great. He can’t dupe me anymore so he leaves me alone and fears me now.

Fellow Survivor says September 19, 2014

Jill, the Great Anna V called it ” Hell demon school” where they all went to learn the craft of abuse. Sort of creepy really.

Jill says September 19, 2014

Hi Kim, after my relationship with one, I did quite a bit of reading and learned a lot about them. They are all programmed the same way. It’s very weird. I think my Narc was surprised at how much I knew. Knowledge is power!

Jill says September 19, 2014

The best way to get rid of a Narc once and for all is no contact. Slowly they will forget about you and move on. Narc’s receive supply from being loving towards them and also arguing with them. They love the attention whether bad or good. Just be silent and it will kill them.

    Kim Saeed says September 19, 2014

    Jill, seems like you have an excellent grasp on how to get rid of a Narc 🙂

Anonymous says September 18, 2014

Also, my husbands girlfriend was beaten very badly by her alcoholic ex and she has a special needs child. I also have a special needs child and my ex is telling her that i am an alcoholic which of course is not true, but see similarities, so she thinks she needs to protect him because she is fighting her demons and he has triangulated her, the perfect target, she can try attack me which comes from her issues and he gets off on that. So transparent.

Anonymous says September 17, 2014

My narc has ignored me for 9 months until last week when he approached me about our home. He was cool and calm and thought he was in control until I declined his offer with certainty. He then sulked and went silent and told me I was making a big mistake. He told me we are never ever getting back together, I said yes I know, that is why I asked you to leave. Oh and with a smirk on his face told yes him and the new girl are inlove, pffft, poor girl!!! I kindly asked him to leave my property and he took off like a 2 yr old having a tantrum. He is so predictable. Why feel the need to approach and tell me this info and come to me with a crazy offer?????

    Jill says September 18, 2014

    Just out of curiousity, does he know that you know he’s a Narc? I’m asking because I exposed mine and he has been silent for about 2 years. My telling him I was onto him did the trick. He wants nothing to do with me now.

      Anonymous says September 18, 2014

      Yes I did tell him i know he is a narc and i also told the girlfriend that she is in triangulation and she defended that of course, cause she thinks he is wonderful to the point where she told my children that failure of marriage was my fault. She does not even know me. I have taken myself out of the triangle and am allowing them to self destruct. How will he react to me leaving the triangle?? Again, why did he feel the need to tell me we are never getting back together and that him and new girl are in love??? This was said after i declined his pathetic offer!!

      Eden says September 18, 2014

      When I broke up with him in Feb and he contacted me in May I finally told him what I thought of him. Told him he was a liar, manipulator, attention seeking narcissist. This was via email. He tried to act as if I was off my rocker and tried to explain what was wrong with ME for thinking and saying such “slanderous and horrible things”. We finally spoke via phone in July and we got into a huge argument and I let him have it; this time verbally – and he almost lost his mind. He called back repeatedly, sent 17 emails in a 12 hour period. All because I told him he was a liar and I didn’t trust him. He kept trying to convince me that i was the crazy one and he is “not a liar and not crazy”. It killed him that I thought so lowly of him. He thought he could talk his way out of my opinion of him (liked he used to talk his way out of everything)..but once he saw the spell was broken, he went away. Its only been two months since that happened. But I suspect now that he has used up all of his tricks he won’t come back. At least I hope!

        Anonymous says September 18, 2014

        My narc called me an alcoholic, bipolar, bad mum etc etc all in front of police whilst he was raging because i have hidden some assets and he tried to get them and they werent here si he called the police. He is very matetialistic, but about to lose everything because of his lack of accountability. He wants the house but I am not budging and he is freaking. What do you think his next move will be. He was also very sexual with me yet his girlfriend said they have not had sex yet in 7 months (that comes from her own issues). He said he does not need sex because they are friends first, pffft whatever. He said he has changed. How can a narc go from highly sexual to needing more if a frienship in a relationship??

          Eden says September 18, 2014

          God Bless You..I was with mine for 2 years and that was enough to rip me to pieces. I can’t imagine being married to him. He kept his ex gf pining after him and would act as if i was being insecure, when really he was instigating the attention he would receive as a means to look more desirable. When I finally called him out on his need for attention via social media and with her, guess what he did? Totally cut her off..dropped her like a hot potato. I guess since I saw thru the illusion he saw no need to keep her around. But the clincher is, he didn’t know that I knew he ended their friendship..and during our last big argument he tried to say that they “have a bond that most ppl wouldn’t understand. Its spiritual and transcends friendship”. LMAO. The lies and the illusions never stop.

          Your ex is probably screwing someone else, since he can’t have sex with the new one. Poor thing..she’ll learn soon enough.

          Anonymous says September 18, 2014

          Funny thing is Eden, she says oh he is happy now, blah blah, and she told me the reason he could not get it up is because he stopped liking me as a person. Funny that, had no problems for 20 years until i called him out on his bullshit.

          Anonymous says September 19, 2014

          Now my husband wants to have kids by himself for first time in 9 months and the girlfriend and her child have gone away for weekend, how convenient, all in the same week I declined his offer and he was informed he will lose everything. Interesting!!!

          Eden says September 18, 2014

          Some nerve speaking to ur children tho. I would be hard pressed not to lose it on her..u dont mess with people’s children.

          Anonymous says September 18, 2014

          I dont know about the sex because he found it difficult to get it or keep it up towards the end of us as I was onto him and was setting boundaries, the stress was killing his libido I think, hence the reason this new target suits because she is careful and that suits him because he cant perform ?

          Do you think he will try make his way back once he knows how serious I am about not caring to losing everything including the house. This is a very ego materislistic sexual man who is willing to lose it all. Any thoughts?

          Eden says September 18, 2014

          Gosh, I dont know. You all were married and have children..from what I’ve read, N’s think u always belong to them. I think he will probably try again with you and when he’s certain you’re done he will try to make u being difficult with the kids and whatever he can do to push your buttons. Since you are connected to him if ways you get out of (children) I think you have to educate yourself and learn to let the things he does roll off ur back. Minimal contact, short, unemotional responses. Get better at playing his game than he is. You should read Upturned Soul’s blog. The stories..smh..

          Kim Saeed says September 19, 2014

          Thank you for mentioning Upturned Soul’s blog 🙂 She’s brilliant!

        Jill says September 19, 2014

        Now that you know what he is and you exposed him, he will do everything possible to make you look like you are the crazy one because he fears you because you know the truth about him. He doesn’t want that getting out. The term is “character assassination”. Mine did the same to me. They fear strong women. As soon as you know what they are, they disappear because they know you can’t be duped any longer by him. Sometimes they come back to see if they can still mess with your mind but once they see you are on to them and they can’t convince you to side with them anymore, they usually slither away. We are now threats to them. Best thing to do is get away from the drama and live a peaceful life. You are better off. A Narc will do the same thing to his next target. And so on. What a miserable life. They are tortured souls that can’t be fixed. Walk away. No contact. I did and I am so much happier now.

          Eden says September 19, 2014

          Thanks Jill. You know, I met my friend’s new bf the other nite for the first time. And I really think he may be a narc. He is very educated and charming (a playwright). He talked incessantly about everything..why people behave the way they do and how childhood impacts negative behaviors, blah blah. He reminded me so much of my ex..he was always talking and acting as if he was the authority on every subject. My poor friend just sat there with a glazed look; she barely got a word in. At one point I decided to do a little test. I directed a question, specifically to HER, and she couldn’t even answer completely before he jumped in with HIS opinion.

          He ‘love bombed’ her from the beginning, writing her poems (mine did that) and texting her sweet nothing constantly. He even moved from LA to NY to be with her and they had only been dating a month! He moved right into her place. He was very sweet and complimentary towards her the entire evening. I just didnt like the way he seemed to be ‘larger than life’. She doesn’t seems as excited as she was a few months ago, says its alot so soon. He hasn’t done anything horrible to her yet that I know of, but she doesn’t seem as happy as she did at first nor does she have that glow that people who are in love usually have – especially in the beginning of a new relationship. I’m so scared for her! I see signs that I never would have recognized before my own experience. I havent’ said anything to her because i dont want to come off as paranoid, but I dont want her to have to go thru what I did either. And how do you tell someone that they may be dating a narc? Are these guys just everywhere?? I just hope this doesn’t turn out to me a disaster.

          Jill says September 19, 2014

          Hi Eden, that’s a tricky one because she may not believe you if you tell her what you suspect. And if she then tells her bf that you suspect he’s one and he is, he will make your life miserable. He sounds like he could be a Narc however, now that I’ve been in a relationship with one, I sometimes feel a little paranoid when I meet a new guy.

          If she’s a really good friend, you may want to tell her about your experience and explain to her what your Narc was like. She may see the resemblance and clue in. Not many people know what Narcissists are. I didn’t until I met mine. This is a tricky one and maybe Kim could help you. I’m not sure.

      Barb says June 10, 2015

      yes, he is fearful of my presence and tells the kidss, I don’t want your mother anywhere near me, lol.


violetannie63 says September 17, 2014

Thank you for this post. I can relate, big time! Thank you also for your “follow”. Much appreciated.

singlewritermama says September 9, 2014

Reblogged this on Living Life Creatively and commented:
Wow! Please read this article.

v3ronicavida says September 5, 2014

You stated that – ‘Narcissists are never happy. They are full of jealousy, rage, insecurity, and hatred.’ If you have established NC – where does all the rage go? Does it transfer to the OW? – Sorry to keep asking probably irrelevant questions.

    Kim Saeed says September 5, 2014

    Yes, v3ronicavida, it goes to the other woman (or women), or anyone else who happens to be in his or her life, including parents and children…

ThankYou says August 29, 2014

My personal experience:
-Passionate and deep in the bedroom
-Highly romantic in words; cannot walk the talk
-Retaliation and punishment with extended silent treatments and cold detachment
-Responding positively to their partner’s mirroring
-Responding negatively to anything that appears to be an opinion different from their own (it is a sign that there is intent to not be supportive)
-Not giving partner recognition for things that normally would be considered very nice gestures of sharing but always expecting recognition for theirs
-Physical aggression which ultimately is the partner’s fault for “antagonizing”
-Alienation from family and/or friends
-Overall disinterest in partner’s family and/or friends
-Condescending attitude toward partner, condescending tone
-Seemingly secretive behavior
-Telling their own friends and family white stories (not the whole story) that may also be aggrandized to sound better
-Their way or the highway
-Walking on eggshells if you are yourself
-0 to 60 when they are angered
-An impossible repair as the disagreement gets deeper
-Overpowering the partner with a loud, yelling voice
-A memory loss as to the actual happenings being discussed
-A slow, disappearing of self and sharing a life of meaning (this one is hard to see as it is happening)
-Irresponsible/reckless behavior
-Financial Exploitation

These are a few I experienced. I knew I loved this person and I felt deep in my heart his sadness and loneliness (so was my understanding.) I broke up with him and got back together with him a year and a half later, only to see the old pattern re-surface. It was not until I stumbled on this term that I am thinking he is. I even doubted myself and took a test to see if, I in fact, was the Narcissist…typical partner turned victim. I am optimistic and confident I will rediscover myself and feel love, self joy and a genuine joy and contentment from life again. I actually see that my relationship with this person has made me more determined to win by being the best me! Thanks for this particular blog, it was great to read the notes and letters from the individual in question of this life behavior.

    ThankYou says August 29, 2014

    PS. Forgot to include how important the “No Contact” is…

    After first break up there was No Contact for a year and a half and when I finally “forgot” all of the things that occurred and I was quickly back in a whirlwind romance; only to move back into the list above. It has been 3 weeks now of No Contact and on a weekly basis the phone rings and a text is sent trying to make a connection to me. I know the danger of having “Contact” which is that all of the things listed above may be tucked away and the cycle could repeat itself.

Process of Elimination: Understanding the Why of the Narcissist After the Discard | Rehashbrowns says August 25, 2014

[…] N will come back again and again after initiating their silent treatment until you just cut them off. They want to check up on you […]

susan says August 14, 2014

I am so happy to find this site. I cannot stop thinking of the narcissist that I’ve had an on and off relationship with for 7 yrs. He lies, cheats, is so jealous, verbally abusive and not even good looking. What’s the attraction? I actually had to watch what clothes I chose so he wouldn’t accuse me of trying to get other mens attention. He remembers everything I say and twists and turns it intoto something awful he can verbally abuse me with. What’s wrong with me. I keep trying to justify his behavior. Pathetic… I know. My no contact has lasted as long as 2 years. I have an instant attraction when I see him which is always long periods and not planned as he lives quite far from me. Reading this site has helped me get a little better handle on my feelings however. Thanks. Any advise for me?

The Narcissist, the Ex, and the New Girlfriend – The Art of Triangulation | Let Me Reach with Kim Saeed says August 10, 2014

[…] time to fight back against hoovering.  If you notice subtle signs of the narcissist’s intent to return, ignore them and move on.  No […]

Anastasia says August 8, 2014

My love and prayers to all in a similar situation. I have experienced this for seven years and I truly understand.

Anastasia says August 8, 2014

I am in the middle of my Ph. D and coping with leaving a sociopath husband. I am in no contact since four months. However, he is trying hoovering to get me back. I have bit of health issues, PTSD. It is tough. All those who read this please pray for me.

    Kim Saeed says August 9, 2014


    Stay strong and don’t fall for the hoovering. He’s shown you his true nature, and that will never change, as you know. It’s hard to resist, I know, when they start acting the romantic, but it’s important to remember it’s just an act.

    Will pray for you <3

    Jill says September 19, 2014

    Anonymous, he’s not into anyone but himself. All he wants is someone to give him supply whether good for bad. He may move in with her but it won’t last. He’ll find someone else once he gets bored like they always do. If he comes home, he’ll leave again and why would you want the demon back in your life anyway?

Anonymous says August 1, 2014

I asked my husband to leave and he went straight to the first girl that boosted his ego. He is now living in a caravan park with her and her daughter. He cannot even look me in the eye and refuses to communicate with me regarding the kids. He is over committef financially, yet says him and the new girl are thinking of renting a house together. Then new girl says I dont know him, he is happy now and she thinks she knows him better after 3 months than i did for 20 years. She told me they are friends first and foremost, that their relationship is not based on sex and the honeymoon period has not started yet. He is lying to her about his finances and tells her I am trying to turn the kids against him, which could not be further from the truth. I am trying to encourage a relationship between him and kids. He told her he is waiting for
settlement, yet he does not have a solicitor. I feel as though he is masking and hiding behind her to numb the pain of me leaving the marriage. She tells me look on facebook you can see how happy we are. Pfffft, again masking, trying to show me he has moved on and how me asking him to leave has not affected him. Any thoughts??

    Kim Saeed says August 9, 2014


    As difficult as it may be, the best thing to do in this situation is to stop communications with the new girl friend. Your Ex is using her to triangulate, and also as a flying monkey. You can put a stop to that by ceasing engagement.

    Best wishes,


      Anonymous says August 9, 2014

      So, does this mean, he is not into her and wants to come home but making it hell for me to show power and control. So, he probably has no intentions of moving in with her, it is all a ploy to keep me guessing, right??

karmabaybee says July 28, 2014

Reblogged this on BEEN TO HELL & BACK BECAUSE I FOUND THE EXITS and commented:
Wow, the reality and truism of this sucks but that’s what happens when you fall for a Narc.

    Kim Saeed says July 28, 2014

    Thank you for the reblog <3

The REAL Reason the Narcissist Comes Back After No Contact | freefromnarcissisticabuse says July 27, 2014

[…] The REAL Reason the Narcissist Comes Back After No Contact. […]

nikki says July 21, 2014

Ten years and two kids later with a Narc. We separated in August 2012 four days after our daughters 7th birthday after him striking me so hard I thought he’d broken my jaw/cheekbone. I did think he would kill me one day if I didn’t get out. Throughout our relationship he was abusive in every way. Since 2012 my ex hasn’t done anything for our kids including being a father. He changed his number, his job, got himself a girlfiend, a house together, holidays, cars, boys toys, all the while I struggled to live daily and raise our kids. Now he’s all settled and happy he’s been wanting to have contact with the kids and for the past two weeks (every tues) for an hour I have allowed him access. Thing is my ex was meant to be picking kids up and the end of our street but he’s been pulling up outside our home for them and when he does he says things like “what’s for tea”, “you want me to come back over tonight don’t you” , “smile I’m only joking” he’ll say. This man left our family in shambles I don’t even want to look at him let alone joke around with him.

    Kim Saeed says July 22, 2014

    Nikki, if your children enjoy seeing him, then it wouldn’t hurt to let them. However, if they don’t want to see him, I wouldn’t go out on a limb for him unless there is some sort of court order in place. He is trying to invade your space physically and mentally, even though he has already moved on.

    Don’t do anything you don’t feel comfortable with…with the exception of legal orders. Start standing up for your personal space and comfort.

Baffled says July 20, 2014

Women can be Narcissists too and it is just as traumatic to a man as it is to a woman. My N left me for her boss. I didn’t know it at the time as I was told I was the problem and that she needed some space to “find herself”. She came back three months later and I was idealized again for a little over a month. After a perfect night together I never saw her again. A few months later the bosses ex wife called me and told me the affair had started while we were still living together. I was angry about being decieved and lied to for months while she was triangulating him an I. I called her and told her I finally knew the truth. I ended up in court slapped with a restraining order to shut me up. I have since found out that all the abuse that she told me she had suffered at the hands of every man she had been in a relationship with was a complete lie to rope me in. It worked! lol. Now if I contact her for 6 months I go to jail! She accused me of stalking her to the judge and told bold faced lies. The judge granted the RO because I “psyclogically abused” her after I found out about the affair. I was screaming inside! That judge has no clue the abuse and the wreckage that woman had done to me! It’s just not fair. It seems they always win! So ladies, women can be just as devestaing a Narcissist as a man can!

    Kim Saeed says July 22, 2014

    Indeed they can, Baffled. Women narcs can be especially nasty. Thanks for sharing your story and helping spread awareness.

    Margot says June 11, 2015

    Yes!! I know several. One man got more then the RO, btw also for her sleeping with their (his and hers) boss. The ‘more’ constituted him being deported!! (for domestic violence, of course) and then killed in another country. btw he too found out about their affair later, after he was deported. Actually THE NEXT DAY (imagine what he felt), and the community too. Don’t know, if I should/can say – you’ve been lucky. Another one triangulated me etc. She is a handbook case Histrionic. Another something else etc. On one of the sites the question had been ‘if psycho women bring less ego into relationship, then psycho men’, I wrote ‘no’ and explained why. Studied all this since 2010…
    NEXT, I am a small woman and live on my own…nobody. The presumably psycho female ‘property manager’ of condominium got the “Condo RO” for me for INTIMIDATING threatening, interrogating HUGE MEN, such as plumbers, security etc, …groups of them!! Just like in your situation, I was blamed everything she did to me. However, I must add, the corporation and the hired management know, that I know their ‘dirty laundry.’ So, it’s not that they were deceived by her, it’s just what is now known as ‘corporate psychopathy’, can look up, if you’re interested. Still, my perception is she is NPD, and btw, just like in your situation, her last move happened when I expressed: I wish you could be tested for NPD. (this is allowed by law, as opposed to ‘you are the NPD’, in this country, at least). One may wonder why I get so many of them (I’ve mentioned the group of 7 elsewhere before). 2 reasons; one is the ‘corporation’ thing, another – they constitute 9% of the population (the whole Cluster B in DSM is a psychopathic cluster). Let’s cut it and make 4-5%. IT’S A LOT! This means that 4-5 people out of 100 you know are these creatures!! That’s why to get many of them in the same group is no surprise to professionals, so the term ‘psychopathic mob’ was coined, and what me and you are in, is known as ‘character assassination’. also they robbed me financially.

    Margot says June 11, 2015

    Buffled, apologies. My reply to this comment of yours, came up as a comment to Kim. See below.

      Margot says June 11, 2015

      …sorry above.

Cjs says July 20, 2014

I can hardly read these posts without my mind blowing. To hear my ex so perfectly described by other people shocks me. It makes me feel foolish for not seeing, or at least, accepting who he truly was from the start. I went no contact with him about three weeks ago and it hasn’t been easy but also not quite as hard as I expected. Sometimes I feel really light when I remember I am free from all the bullshit. The gas lighting was the worst. He could make me doubt things I’d seen with my own fucking eyes. How is that possible!? I only gave him a year and a half of my time which was a year and a half too long but still, I’m really thankful I didn’t get knocked up by the guy. What a tragedy that would’ve been. He texts me last night angry and drunk (super attractive that is lol) and I responded one time, quite rudely, and then blocked the bastards number and went to sleep. I’ve blocked him before only to unblock him for some mystifying reason but I suspect this time he will stay blocked. I can’t take his shit anymore and I’m tired of feeling violated and sick with anxiety anytime he calls or texts. I no longer care if he’s thinking of me or not as I am moving on and doing so quickly. I’m grateful I finally left and grateful I escaped relatively unscathed. If everything happens for a reason (still not sure on that :/) then perhaps he came into my life to show me why it’s so important to work on my self esteem and how I treat myself. He attached to me because I was easy prey. I won’t ever be again.

    Kim Saeed says July 22, 2014

    Cjs, thank you for sharing your story.

    Kudos on going No Contact! Don’t beat yourself up for breaking it the first time. 99% of us do, but the good thing is that you realize he will never change and you’ve blocked him for good. By the way, NC is the same as rehab…seriously. The relationship with the Narc causes a biochemical addiction, in addition to the brainwashing of our psyche. Try to remember that when things get rough.

Vanilla Sky – Unreality with the Narcissist | Let Me Reach with Kim Saeed says July 19, 2014

[…] Hoovering – Creating the false illusion that he/she is sorry for their cruelty.  Reality – They don’t love you; they only need you for supply and domination. […]

EDEN says July 12, 2014

My story is a little different – I THINK. I left my ex in March because the fights kept escalating and he was becoming increasingly disrespectful. He had called me a b*tch more than once, would use things I told him in trust to help ‘win’ the argument or put me down. Our fights happened when my opinion differed and/or I would not back down from my position. He was unable to take criticism and would devalue my feelings and input about the relationship – if those feelings made him appear wrong in any way. He seemed to need to be perceived as perfect in my eyes. He also seemed to get off on the attention he would receive on FB from him almost all female friends list. He has that spiritual persona and everyone thinks he is so wise and enlightened. He also allowed an ex (who lived in another country) to keep believing that she had a chance with him. He claims he never encouraged her but IMO he didnt do enuff to discourage her either.

In stark contrast to what I’ve written above, unlike what I have read about other narcissists, he never discarded me (he would get angry and yell ‘its over’ during an argument, but would always call to reconcile within minutes). He went out of his way to help me jumpstart my career, even creating a website for me, he was always loving and encouraging..doing small things, like buying me my favorite treats from the store so that they would be waiting for me when I came over. He would order dinner and have it waiting when I got there. Very giving in our lovemaking (in contrast to what I’ve read about most N’s). Hopeless romantic, he would light candles and have music playing. And this wasnt just in the beginning..he was this way consistently for the entire two years we were together. Early in our relationship my ex hubby wanted to get back together and he said while he loved me, he understood that my children needed their dad and if it was something I wanted he would step aside for the sake of my family. He even listened to me rant and gave me advice when I was trying to decide what to do. He even gave me advice and a shoulder to cry on when I was dealing with issues with my mom. He loved to be the center of attention, monopolizing our conversations, but he was also a great listener.

Is this typical N behavior? I do see strong narcissistic qualities in him, but I wonder if he is a true N. I dont want to look for reasons to by sympathetic to him, because he hurt me deeply and Ihe will not get a pass on that. He hasn’t apologized in the few times he’s reached out to me either. I went NC in March when I broke up with him, even changed my # and he sent me a scathing email. Two months later, in May, he wrote a lovely email that he misses me blah blah. It was sweet but I couldn’t let what he did go addressed, so I politely outlined how I was hurt and lovingly explained what I thought his issues were. He didn’t acknowledge anything and said I was slandering him (typical) and blamed me essentially for all of his bad behavior. He wrote again last mo