What’s the best way to co-parent with a narcissist? He never takes responsibility. Either blaming me, saying I’m being dramatic or that he doesn’t remember anything I’m talking about. Like his lack of memory excuses him?? WTH?? Even when I can show through text as a reminder. Nope, no idea what I’m talking about. He’s used the court system to continue his mental abuse, as well as any parenting. It’s to the point where the idea of dealing with him terrifies me. I know what I’m in fire, yet still need to advocate for my sons. Which always winds up with me a wreck and him feeling superior. At 21 and 17 our sons are now seeing through the lies and having to deal with the rants, grandiose behavior, manipulation and their fathers refusal to own the truth/consequences of his behaviors. It’s so bad they don’t want to see him. So…why do I feel guilty? Why do I feel like I need to encourage them to have a relationship with their Father, who I know is not a good person? He already accuses me of trying to ruin their relationship. I’m at a loss. I’m overwhelmed and confused. Please advise.

Hi. My sister is dead & I know she was killed. I’ve had her phone since she died, & over the past year I’ve done nothing but research all the things I thought I’d need to go up against a negligent police department. I researched even more for when it would come to the coroners bureau. I read about autopsies, blood pooling, pre-mortem vs. post-mortem, coagulation, estimated time of death.. I read every article & pdf there is online about California police death scene protocols so that I’d know what the officers did right & wrong. I complied a video of all the news stations that covered stories on the Coroners bureau being one of the most backlogged in the state with most of their pathologists quitting, being majorly short staffed, & having an average backlog of 90 dead bodies in waiting per day. how short staff so backlogged with an average of 90 dead bodies in waiting per day &! on average per day & that wants to push the case under the rug. think it would take to first find out what the police did wrong by k need totaken extensive notes of any bit of j to I’ve read up on police death scene protocols, rigor mortis, post Mortem/pre-mortem, blood coagulation.. , by the very violent manipulative man my whole family feared would kill her on day. I’d like to chat with you sometime.

❓ so been together 15+ yrs my other half is an RN 5yrs in a psych facility she’s compassionate with patients a social butterfly and of a coworker doesn’t do their job to her standards it’s absurd to her!? She always needed reassured by family keeps score and always views parents advice or suggestive questions like they intend to harm or degrade her when I suggest a different view I’m with them should just listen not advise let her get off her chest (like she’d let it go) ! A while back she felt neglected so I focused on being attentive appreciative and reconnecting !!! Now yrs later after pushing to talk spend quality time not sit side by side on devices disengaged she’d express doing nothing wrong now anytime I speak she’s looks angry and gets defensive or justifies what I try to work through together ( talks in circles, quotes, corrects – irrelevant things cuts me off or is quiet nothing in between) asking to work together or understand each other is to find a resolution to issues even if she “understands my view she insists on the same perspective” as if a change in opinion admits fault or being wrong instead of simply a break down in communication for instance. Twisting things to be a victim. Obviously just my side but would this be considered narcissistic qualities/ scornful/ or something else I’m your opinion? Seeking another opinion bcuz it feels intentional as well as returning to a happy healthy relationship being impossible

❓ so been together 15+ yrs my other half is an RN 5yrs in a psych facility always needed reassured by family keeps score and always views parents advice or suggestive questions like they intend to harm or degrade her when I suggest a different view I’m with them should just listen not advise let her get off her chest (like she’d let it go) ! A while back she felt neglected so I focused on being attentive appreciative and reconnecting !!! Now yrs later after pushing to talk spend quality time not sit side by side on devices disengaged she’d express doing nothing wrong now anytime I speak she’s looks angry and gets defensive or justifies what I try to work through together ( talks in circles, quotes, corrects – irrelevant things cuts me off or is quiet

I am constantly told “you have changed”. Yes demon, yes I have. I stand up for myself, I point out your wrongdoings instead of silently moping, and I treat, talk to you the same way you treat and talk to me. Simply put, I grew a backbone! Change for the win. You can gtf if you don’t like the new me.

Oh, and one more comment…sorry Kim! But there is also the weird coded language that some narcs (or narc-like people) use when they don’t want accountability.

Mine took to saying “it’s messy” which was his code for “I’m cheating on you, but I don’t want to admit it or stop what I’m doing”.
He is the one who complicated things by hiding me (his wife of nearly 15 years) from most people he knew.
He is the one who made things “messy” by being active on social media, while pretending to be single.
I told him that things become “messy” if people choose to deceive others. I’m not perfect, but I take responsibility when I screw up.

I’ve had men try to chat with me online but I don’t engage. Why? Because I respected my husband and my marriage and I loved him.
With some narcs, I feel that denial plays a part in their unwillingness to be held accountable. They might convince themselves that it isn’t that bad or that the other person is overreacting.
They might even see us as the problem. I told him that at no time did I ever agree to an open marriage, or him dealing with other women.
That just isn’t what we agreed to. If you want to play the field, stay single. But don’t bring third parties into our marriage.

One of these third parties was a coworker that for years I foolishly believed was “just a friend”.
Now I think that it became more than that. I’m not sure just how far things went, but there was definitely an emotional affair (which he denied). What makes it more outlandish is that when I discovered certain things, he became defensive and expected me to apologize…for finding out?
And then the silent treatment for a long time.

I told him I would apologize if I was wrong, but I had reason to believe that he was being unfaithful, and he didn’t own up to it.
That was the main problem. I can forgive but I can’t handle lies and a lack of accountability.

An interesting and informative article. However, I have to disagree that narcissists exclusively “feel superior to others” as opposed to trying to compensate for a sense of shame or inadequacy. There is no reason why it can’t be some and some.

I’m absolutely certain that my ex was highly narcissistic as everything you say describes so accurately the relationship I had with her.

However, I also know with 100% certainly that she was unbelievably insecure, to the post that it seemed to be pathological. She seemed incapable of stopping herself from feeling threatened by or resentful towards anybody who seemed better than her or had a better life, or got the acceptance that she so craved but never felt that she had. Her-destructive behaviour was almost always directed towards me, more or less from the moment she realised that I wanted to better myself and was more interested in what I could become and how I could contribute to others than in being dependent on her or being her supply (other what is normal for a equal-partnered relationship).

Eventually she carried out the ultimate revenge on me once she realised that I was only putting up with her because I cared about my children more than anything else in the world, so she set about systematically undermining me as a parent and destroying the relationship and trust I had built up with them. This left me totally broken and suicidal and heading towards a nervous breakdown. Even after we split up she assumed that I would not last long without her and told me that she had always loved me. Although it didn’t stop her hedging her bets by seeing a dreadful man that she got to know as we headed towards separation, and who she married nine months later.

There were a number of other seriously messed up things going on in her psyche at the same time, like the need for codependency, but her selfishness and entitlement really were all driven by pathological levels of insecurity, which ultimately led her to developing an utterly selfish, devious and eventually malicious personality that felt evil”, both mentally and spiritually.

A narcissist will be OK with you until you notice their lies, their lack of remorse, and their immaturity.
The minute I stopped being (in his eyes) the “good-time girl” and became more responsible, wanting stability and security in our marriage…his attitude changed.

It’s funny because he used to complain that he thought I was shallow and frivolous, but when I matured, then THAT became a problem.
When I stopped being the “cool” wife and wanted to discuss our future in more depth, that was a problem.
When I felt he was crossing the line with other women, he started seeing me as the enemy.
When I wanted him to cut down on the porn because it was killing our intimacy, that was a problem.
Anything that disrupts their “fun” and entitlement…anything that holds them accountable…they don’t like that.

As I told him: “you wanted the benefits of marriage (sex and other perks) but otherwise, you wanted your life to remain the same. You wanted me to look the other way while you chat with other women and possibly do more than that. You want me to ignore my own needs and wants, so you can feel better. My discomfort doesn’t matter as long as you can have what you want”.

They hate accountability. To them, it looks like “blame”…they don’t want to own their actions or deal with consequences.
They want to issue a fake apology and then they expect you to continue with life as though nothing happened.

I feel that with people that do this, they have never had to deal with consequences…not in a healthy way.
Lying and rug-sweeping come naturally to them. Maybe from the time they were children, this is how they cope and learn to normalize things that are bad.

When I tried to talk to my husband about his lies/cheating/avoidance of consequences, he either shut down with the silent treatment OR he told me that I’m not being “nice”. Excuse my language, but…fuck that. Nice? I’m not being nice? That is a way to make me the villain and avert responsibility.
It’s not “nice” to lie to your spouse repeatedly and cheat and deny, deny, deny. It’s not “nice” to give people the silent treatment.
It’s not “nice” to pursue other women behind my back.

But hey…whatever. According to him, wanting accountability and truth makes me “not nice”.
The minute I became more vocal about my needs and feelings, he started saying that I’m not “nice”. As I told him, I was nice until I uncovered the emails where he told his friends about visiting escorts, and then there were the texts to female coworkers, the nude pictures, etc.
Oh…and how suddenly he no longer wanted us to take simple family photos together anymore. Wanna know why? Because the other woman/women might see that, and he didn’t want to explain himself to anyone.

Another way that he likes to gaslight me is by playing Christian music (although he is a self-declared atheist) with themes of “mercy” and “forgiveness”.
Now I see this as a tactic to make me feel guilty for speaking my mind, being assertive, asking important questions, etc.
That goes with the lack of accountability and his attitude that I should simply shut up and be “nice”.
You see, people who refuse to be held accountable are not to be trusted because they feel consequences don’t apply to them.
They play by their own rules when no one is watching. On the surface, they will play by society’s rules…they hold jobs, pay tickets, etc. But they do bad things in private and expect to not be called out when it comes to light.

I can compare it to parents who ignore a child’s criminal behavior (like bullying or cruelty to animals)…and then that child grows up not wanting to be accountable for anything they do.
Or a politician who cheats on his wife, shows no remorse, and doesn’t want others calling him out.

I think that people with a narcissistic bent have another view of accountability. They often see it as “blame” rather than what it truly is…an expectation of maturity and being responsible for one’s actions, then taking steps to make positive change.
It’s not about blame. It’s about admitting wrongdoing and working to do what’s right. That is what I tried to tell him. He thinks I’m this mean person because I tried to talk about what matters to me, how we can improve our marriage, and I wanted him to admit his involvement with others.
He won’t do any of that.

Don’t ever call a narcissist by name or point out how the relationship seems to align with the narcissistic pattern of love bomb, devalue, discard and sometimes hoover. No matter how perfect the fit. It will unleash a new level of hell on earth. I am with a woman who seemingly has had the worst of luck in relationships with 2 former “abusive” husbands. One of whom I knew personally and never struck me as she describes but hey who knows, right? Now after 5 years with her I have been able to come up with a criteria in my 3rd failed attempt at a happily ever after. Beware the damsel in distress, the monster she is claiming to run from was her last night in shining armor. She created him from her own twisted definition of “Love” If the conflict resolution she uses on me of stonewalling, projection, script flip, gaslighting, shame, withholding intimacy and conversation to solve a problem not to multiply or amplify it with assaults on your entire existence on this planet being something of a joke and your accomplishments minimized. Sorry I got caught up in the moment there….. You get the gist. I have tried every angle I could to be at least heard, she walks away or grabs her phone or lays down and zzzzzz. I have paid all the household bills. She lives in my home and I ask nothing of her except to participate in a loving and healthy relationship. no bills except what she wants to spend her money on. If she doesn’t go to work she may stay home for a week to 5 months at a shot and I really didn’t used to say too much until she started to run me into the ground without cause or explanation.Don’t show videos on how to be a better couple or on how her behavior is harmful. she will cherry pick anything you have ever done albeit a response to her behavior and whatever label of discord that accompanies that is yours for life.I paid off her debt and arrears to CS to her first ex and got her out of jail without more than a thank you with no offer of repayment. I could go on and on but I know how pathetic I look already. I have been hopeful to the degree of delusional it seems now and I feel trapped in a downward spiral. I have developed anxiety and tremors from trying to reason with her with no improvement. I am not perfect but I always try. I am not homely or out of shape and I have far more potential than my current level of effort in my trade, I just lack the motivation and confidence to do as I used to do and could still do if I could find reason to try, she was it. sorry it sounds more like self pity but that is the short and skinny of it.

The worst part is when the narcissist lies and flips the script so well to make themselves the victim, that they actually convinced other people that you’re the horrible person that they say you are. You don’t even get to defend your character. But I have learned that defending my character isn’t even important to me any longer. Believe what you want.

A rollercoaster ride from hell!!!!!

Kim, thank you so much for writing this article. I’ve come to realize that when you’ve had covert narcissist caregivers you often recreate those relationships in adulthood in every area of your life (work, etc) without knowing it.
What impacted me from this article was “A person who’s genuinely sorry is going to prove that to you.” That was an eye-opener. I’ve never been in a relationship where someone cared about how they hurt me and wanted to do something about it. It’s hard to believe the mutually reciprocal relationships exist and that it’s something I could have. This article is full of so many gems that I needed to hear. It’s like you knew exactly what I’ve been going through. Thank you again.

The trouble is, a lot of world leaders and other powerful people we are supposed to admire and look up to are narcissists. They spread nonsensical views, fake news and outright lies, and when they are caught out lying, they refuse to admit it and be accountable.
I’m not sure how the human race came to this. I hope we can get past this time of narcissists being in control.