5 Common Questions About the Common Narcissist

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Wouldn’t it be great if you knew exactly what the narcissist was thinking and doing behind their facade of naivety and innocence?

While I unfortunately can’t read minds, most narcissists are quite predictable and they typically play by the same rule book.  Below I offer a list of the five most commonly asked questions which appear on my stats page and Facebook forum.

Consider this your cheat sheet.

1)       When Does the Narcissist go No Contact?

The Narcissist doesn’t go No Contact.  They implement the Silent Treatment, which is a specific form of punishment that achieves two goals.  1) It conditions you to stop bringing up things that hurt you so that they don’t need to bother with damage control, and 2) It gives them the much-needed opportunity to groom new or existing supply sources.

When the Narcissist starts ignoring you, blocking you, and leaving for a couple of weeks at the time (or more), it’s his/her way of forcing you to comply with and accept abusive behavior patterns.  For instance, it often happens when you point out unfairness on their part, confront them about cheating, or express your displeasure at something they’ve said or done.  The Silent treatment is a manipulative tool the Narcissist uses when the relationship is ongoing.

If the Narcissist has found a new source of supply, they will often pretend to discard you, but oftentimes, it isn’t a true discard.  At this point, they might admit they’ve found someone new, or simply leave without explanation and may begin to block you from contacting them.

However, this isn’t No Contact.  It’s an act of rejection because you no longer see them as the perfect person they want you to see and they need to acquire someone new who will.  However, they typically don’t entirely leave someone who has been a good source of supply and will fabricate a “let’s be friends” scenario or play the torn between two lovers act.

Alternately, they may feel icky and want to clean up the mess they’ve created. Allow me to illustrate:

Imagine yourself at a park.  You’re walking along, enjoying the great weather, when all of a sudden you step in a pile of dog dung.  You feel disgusted, grossed out, and your only thoughts are how you can get rid of the mess and the unpleasant smell.

That’s how the Narcissist feels when they start discarding you.  They don’t want to deal with the “mess” of your emotions, crying, and requests for fidelity and normal relationship dynamics.

It’s important to remember, however, that there’s nothing wrong with you.  The Narcissist does whatever the voice in their head tells them to do.  Think of them as a psychological serial killer.  They really can’t control themselves.

2)      Can a Narcissist learn to “re-love” a spouse or significant other?

The Narcissist isn’t interested in learning anything with the exception of improving tools of control and manipulation.  Besides, how can they “re-” something that never existed in the first place?

From the Narcissist’s point of view, it’s all about comfort, convenience, the freedom of singlehood, and being afforded the free will of hunting for new supply.  This explains why they are almost always caught cheating.  Even if they haven’t been discovered, they still do it because they know that every relationship they enter into will come to an end and because of this, they are always in various stages of relationships with other people. (The possible exception being the cerebral narcissist).

3)       How does the Narcissist feel when you go No Contact?

Panicked and/or pissed.

If the Narcissist hasn’t successfully lined up new supply when you go No Contact, they panic.  Narcissists must have a source of supply for their survival.  That’s why many times they will hoover you to get you back, but then end up rejecting you later after they secure acceptable supply.

Alternately, the Narcissist will be extremely angry that you took away their perceived power.  How dare you?  They are the one running the show, and you need to understand your place…which is another reason they hoover and then eventually discard you.

Accepting the Narcissist back in after breaking No Contact will ONLY lead to more pain and misery for you.  There is no other outcome.

4)       How can I reach the Narcissist’s real self?

A Narcissist doesn’t have a “real self”.  They only have ego.  That’s why nothing you say or do can change their perspective; they aren’t capable of seeing any other perspective except that of their ego. And they will do and say whatever is necessary to preserve it.

Narcissists operate from a somewhat reptilian brain, and they have many different adaptations that allow them to live in society.  Similar to some species of lizards, Narcissists use head-bobbing and other assertive, aggressive, courtship and greeting displays.  Their primary drive is to establish and defend territory.  They are tyrannical to the extreme, even though this is often camouflaged in their interactions with society and romantic partners.

Experiment:  Visit a local pet store.  Locate a reptile.  Try to reach its true self.  Whatever result you achieve will be similar to an attempt to reach a Narcissist’s “true self”.

5)       How can I get a Narcissist to forgive me?

Forgive you for what?  Did you try to establish a healthy boundary, ask for respect, or lash out because they were abusive?

Narcissists aren’t capable of forgiveness.  Every interaction they have is a battle of wills.  Even if they give the appearance that they’ve forgiven you, you can bet they are exacting revenge behind the scenes.

Remember how you ate the last crab leg seven years ago on one of your first dates?  I’m sure you don’t.  But they do.  And they’ve been finding ways to make you pay ever since.

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Bcbg8894 says January 30, 2018

Im fresh out of a reletioship with a narc. I lost my job and all my friends. The relationship was very abusive both mentally and physically. This started back in may of 2016. Before I met him I was happy and energetic. I had a job I loved and was very independent. Now I have nothing.including no self esteem. It’s only been a week since I left, he texted me one evening and asked me to dinner and I refused.so I then became a slut and a worthless human being. I have had no contact with him since as im sure he has a new supply. I saw it on fb. At that point I blocked all of his fb accounts. This is the first time we have had no contact for this long. Normally he blows up my phone and stands at my window while I sleep. Then accuses me of cheating with anything that moves, including my childrens friends. Accordimg to him he has seen me with these people. Which is a complete lie. Truth is im afraid to let anyone close to me. I did have a first degree felony on him, which I dropped because I belived he would change. Truth be told thats when things got really bad for me. I dont know what to do, im stuck. I want to move on but I dont know how to even begin. I see all the advise and think its the right thing to do. But I cannot motivate myself to do anything.there is so much more to my story. I know I need theropy but I cannot even afford to pay for it. The physical abuse was so hard, I still havw bruises on me.I want to tell my story with all the details but I dont even know how. I want to help others but first I have to help myself. How do I do that? How do I start my recovery?

    Kim Saeed says January 30, 2018

    Hi Bcbg8894,

    The best advice I can give is to visit your local Domestic Violence Center. Take pictures of any remaining marks you have and make sure they are date/time stamped. Not only can they help you in the event you need protection in the future, they will have resources to help you find either free or greatly reduced therapy.

    Wishing you all the best.


    Carol says July 20, 2019

    Please, please ! Remove yourself from this situation it will only get WORSE, I have been married to a narcissistic for 50 yrs and am realizing that I was not always at fault ! I wish Pinterest would have been around in those days but I now have the tools to understand how to what I have to do to distance me from this “VAMPIRE “ that has sucked the life out of me. I would not want any woman to go thru what I have been through. It may be too late for me so I’m urging please GET OUT or you will never find peace like we all deserve. I wish you luck and new love and happiness.

FAQ Friday – What is a Narcissist Thinking When They Discard You? - Let Me Reach with Kim Saeed says November 8, 2017

[…] beginning that the relationship wouldn’t last, and they must make you feel at fault.  One of the primary goals of the Narcissist is – Accept No […]

mike says April 29, 2017

These narcissists are so predictable its funny. This guy that used to mooch off me, friends w/family and everthing, that I saw this evening and gave a ride about 2 blocks in my car, decided to try the old leave behind / george costanza trick on me and the funny thing is i KNEW he would, even though i dont think hes ever done it before, at least not exactly like that. I simply thought “If i were this shady ass passive aggressive narcissist, what would I do right now? I’d leave something in the car to get you to come around when youre busy tomorrow, and flip out if you dont!” So he didnt answer his phone after I left and I dropped the shit off w/ his buddy up the street. Fuck em. I’m one step ahead at all times

    Wazakauye Zulu says May 4, 2017

    I need to do this. Be a step ahead

carla says June 1, 2015

Mine put a gun to my head before I realized how bad it was. He served 6 months in jail and was found not guilty based on his word against mine. Not enough evidence. Yes he took the stand at his own trial and he’s out now fighting me tooth and nail to get all his guns back and visitation With the kids. There’s a RO, but that’s not going to stop his crazy ass. I will live in hiding for the divorce. Of course it’s my fault he lost his job.

carla says June 1, 2015

Mine put a gun to my head before I realized how bad it was. He served 6 months in jail and was found not guilty based on his word against mine. Yes he took the stand at his own trial and he’s out now fighting me tooth and nail to get all his guns back and visitation With the kids. There’s a RO, but that’s not going to stop his crazy ass.

Misty Tran says May 26, 2015

Why ex narcissist dumped me for 5 months, now he came back for 1 weeks and ignored me again, He knows. I am very good supply, independent wealthy, good shape, beautiful lady, strong confident. He dumped me because I found out he has been cheating and he picked her but he knew she didn’t have money

Kari says May 22, 2015

Kim (or anyone who may know this answer) Why does a narcissist (suspected has all the traits) say they want to maintain friendship, but actually discard you and block you from their facebook? I strongly feel he is looking at my page through a fake FB account.

    Kim Saeed says May 31, 2015

    Generally, they want to “stay friends” because they intend to string you along with the hope of reconciliation while keeping their options open, and he most likely blocked you from FB so he could openly flirt with other women without your finding out…plus, he doesn’t want any new women to know he still has you in the picture.

Bootsie says April 25, 2015

I am looking for the most self-empowering, head held high response.

Bootsie says April 25, 2015

Making myself crazy going around and around with myself over how to end my relationship with my common narc. Who is also my son. Long story short: years and years of this behavior, but recently had reason to give him another chance. Not to happen. Same old. Then when i called him on it and said, “I had so hoped we could have built trust in our relationship this time.” He came back with a typical narc low blow sarcastic comment that did not reflect that he had heard anything either of us had said the last few months. I understand all the dynamics here. Even me being pulled in my this comment. And my self-doubting cnfusion I’m stuck in now and want out of. My question, my only question is: What if anything do I say now to let him know I am done. And to make closure for myself. Thank You!
1. No response
2. This response:
“When it is important enough to you, you will understand what it actually takes to build trust, you will be able to make that a part of everything you do and consistently bring that into our relationship. Until then, no kind of meaningful relationship is possible.
I am sorry this has not worked out for us. I wish you the best in all your endeavors.”

3. The long detailed version- just to know, for myself I’ve said it. Once and for all. Have said variations on this theme for his entire 32 year life. Just different details. I know it will fall on deaf ears or elicit some other narc response.
“Is this what you believe? If so, we have an even bigger trust and communication problem than I thought. And that is what we should be working on rather than business deals.
I have repeatedly told you that my priority was that both our interests would be protected. I spent many hours and hundreds of dollars in pursuit of protecting YOUR interests. I am disappointed that you do not get that.
What I am wondering is what happened between the offer you made me, months of ”it’s good, it’s good” with very little input on your part, then suddenly, after I went to a lot of effort to put our agreement in writing, it’s not so good and the offer completely changes with no discussion or mutually ruling out the first offer.
So many times my trust in you and your word has been broken that I can no longer depend on your word or that you understand mine. Instead, I feel strung along trying to figure out where the shifting goalposts are, that what I say falls on deaf ears and that what you say is not reliable. Sadly, trusting you has often incurred a huge price financially and emotionally for me.
It appears that you have very little trust in me also. Not enough to take what I say seriously or communicate what you really mean. What do you need to happen in order to do that?
Money has absolutely nothing to do with trust building. What does is:
• Clear communication
• Being present
• Showing accountability for your own choices
• Saying what you mean, meaning what you say and following through with what you say.
• If you have a change of mind or concerns then that needs to be communicated up front and new bi-lateral agreements made.

I have not ever consistently experienced that with you and I really hoped we could have done that this time.

When it is important enough to you, you will understand what it actually takes to build trust, you will be able to make that a part of everything you do and consistently bring that into our relationship. Until then, no kind of meaningful relationship is possible.

I am sorry this has not worked out for us. I wish you the best in all your endeavors.”

HB says April 23, 2015

Dear Kim, the analogy of him stepping in dog dung and that’s how he feels about me is so accurate (and also very painful…) – great description! Also the fact that he (in my case he) doesn’t go no contact is so true. He listed for me all the things I did wrong and couldn’t speak to me at the moment, but maybe again in a few months, but why didn’t he just block me…? So initially I sent him lots of pleading messages until he finally said I should give him space, but he still didn’t block me, just ignored me. I have finally blocked him but I have had two lapses so far in 3 weeks where I’ve sent him a ‘neutral’ message wishing him well. After I’d sent them I was so disappointed with myself for being weak and giving in to my desperation. I thought that maybe he would eventually forgive me for my ‘wrongdoings’. I hope it gets better, does it?

    Mary says May 11, 2015

    HB, please know that this swine, whoever he is, doesn’t deserve the priviledge of eating your sh*t. He is complete and utter scum. *Nobody* plays games as they do who is serious about a relationship or who cares about another person. Their nasty behaviour is all one big control game and ego trip for them. They love to inflict pain with their one-upmanship tactics. They are sick psychos.
    Give the trash a good leaving alone. Best thing you could ever do.
    And find someone else, HB. Anything to take your mind off that undeserving sack of excrement. That’s right. Leave his no-good arse where ir belongs: in the dirt.

      Anonymous says May 11, 2015

      Mine is my son. It does not get better. The wrong doings are not yours.

        Heather Wright says May 12, 2015

        Thank you so much for your replies Mary and Anonymous. It really does help enormously. It is so difficult to combat the feelings of not being good enough when someone has constantly reminded you of how awful you are. It has taken me a long time to realise that I do actually have friends who like me so I must have something to offer…. Unfortunately, I faltered in my resolve and contacted one more time. I asked if we talk on the phone about just anything casual and I also sent him a video in which I was very upset telling him that I didn’t think he ever wanted me to be his friend. That made him really really mad! His reply was so cutting, it made me feel sick. He told me I was being melodramatic and he didn’t associate with those sort of people and once again reminded me of all the things I had done to offend him. So finally I think I will be able to get over him because it was such a kick in the teeth and I have realised I do not need him. He has never given me anything but pain and a little initial flattery. It really hurts but I am a phoenix rising from the ashes (again thanks to Kim for that one). Thank you so much for your kind support.

        Sam 1 2 587 says December 20, 2016

        How do you handle it if it’s you kid as opposed to a significant other?
        Curious because I thin ex has “converted” my oldest and I’m not sure if I should go into self protection mode or still try to help the kid.

Kyle says April 17, 2015

I just wanted to ask: Can a person who is subject to the whims and abuses of a narcissist, in an attempt to ‘fight back,’ as opposed to just leaving, become what most people would view as verbally abusive/’bad’ and worth leaving themselves? I read everyone else’s stories and my heart goes out to them, but it never seems like any of the people ‘defended’ themselves, as part of going crazy and saying WTF?!
I admittedly got hooked on the mother of my child, not because of her so much, but because of her then 4-month old son, who she let me hold and feed–a bottle, the very first day we met. I was in awe at how comfortable she was with me around him, because I knew in a way, that this was not ‘normal.’

But because of my past previous to her—being with a woman who got pregnant, unplanned, but then made up a story about being at a party and possibly being raped, just so I would be ‘okay,’ with the abortion, so that she could not have a baby, but keep the man she ‘loved;’ which backfired horribly on her, because this action killed me; hollowed me out inside-long story there–I was immediately bonded to her infant son and I watched him 4 nights a week while she was in school and was his primary parent for about 7 months.

The first time I ever NEEDed her help, was about two months after I took her and ‘baby boy’ into my home, because they had stayed over for the weekend the second week that I knew them and when she went back to her parents (yes, she finally left her ex-husband, who she portrayed as a monster and was staying with them—this later became a triangulation tactic that did indeed drive me crazy to some extent; one night I even put a hole in the wall, because she so calmly and stoically was telling me something that was going to happen without discussing it or anything else; yes, I know I probably sound abusive, anger problems, etc, without knowing all of the details.) her parents confronted her about it and her ex-husband was at her parents house that day, he confirmed that she got right in her step father’s face and was daring him to hit her. He did; I found out and ‘rescued’ her. (RED FLAGS THAT I SHOULD HAVE WALKED AWAY FROM, BUT I WAS ALREADY BONDED—ITS HARD TO EXPLAIN, BUT I BONDED WITH THAT LITTLE BOY IMMEDIATELY.)
So the first time I needed her help; I was doing 99/1 percent of the relationship. Her only ‘job’ was to be ready on time, and clean up after herself while home, so that when I got home from work, with baby boy, because—and I had to defend this to my co-workers, he did not stay home with her, while she was home all day—he went to daycare, I could get her to school on time.
This particular day, she spent the day at the food stamps office; when I got her and then we got her son, I told her, there is no way I can get you to school on time. Please stay home with me; let’s get pizza, let’s relax, just the three of us. She insisted on needing to keep her perfect attendance (she was going to school for a medical assisting ‘degree,’), so I begged her and she was insistent. So I did the other of two things I could have done at that moment, I took her. So we are in gridlock traffic and I am suffering in silence, clearly have an angry, hurt, dejected look on my face and she says to me: “I know you are upset, but your attitude really sucks.”

I’ll never forget that one.

Nor will I ever forget the night that she asked me to take my car, she had a learner’s permit, to her ex-husband’s house, because his car was in the shop, so that he could then drive the two of them to a gaming event…all this while I am at home, with both of their sons.
This was about 9 months after we met and the older boy, who stayed with his father when we first met, was kept with his brother full-time; their decision, so it was our week with the boys.

I’ll never forget that I used to leave the house to go for walks to keep myself from ever uttering words of abuse and I would be chased after and told: “look at you walking out on your family. Are you going to abandon your child when they are born too?!?!” She was 3-4 months pregnant at this point. She also went and lived with her ex-husband three different times while she was pregnant with our daughter. The third time, I told her, because she said: “why are you just so willing to throw us out of your life?! I’m not coming home until we discuss how you need to change.”
I told her that I’m not throwing you out, I just have to have some boundaries. I need you to be a part of US.

That was a common theme; I was always the one being told that I had to change. I needed to go do therapy to control my anger, because not being listened to or heard, or my feelings not being of the least bit importance, was no reason to get angry; certainly no reason to ever resort to name calling.

By the way, some of the things she told me about her ex-husband: he tried to have her get an abortion (she was cheating on him, he wasn’t sure if the pregnancy was his–that was the actual reason–he did a paternity test for both boys; my daughter looks just like me, and she even has my late father’s birthmark; it’s almost a ‘miracle’ in a way, because she missed meeting him by almost 9 years.), he beat her when she was 8 months pregnant; he beat the older son; he would berate and call her fat and lazy while she was pregnant with their second son (baby boy). So I built up this idea in my head that i HATED the guy and thought at the very least, she should have only the absolute bare minimum to do with him regarding the boys–which she agreed with me on, until we moved 2 miles away from him, as opposed to 40 miles away.

I even nearly came to physical blows once with him, because he was in my home and they were in the kitchen and he was yelling at her; turns out it was about him wanting to see ‘baby boy,’ more as they had not yet put into motion the boys being kept together. All I heard was him yelling at her, so I got in between them and told him he needed to leave. Two weeks later, they were in the boys’ room, door shut, talking about me. That took all my control to not go in there and smack them both—I went and opened the door and said: “this is not appropriate.”

I guess back to my original point, now that this has gone much longer than I meant it to, yet only barely scratches the surface of our whopping 22 months together, in which time I took her on three different vacations, and a fourth was 3 months away, had a child, got a house—I still miss that house, hated living there of course—got a vehicle for her, because I thought it was a good idea, since I could pay the bills on my own at our apartment, that she put away $500/month for 6 months, then use some of our tax return to get her a vehicle—a minivan, which was going to be used for family vacations. But all of that was not enough…never is, is it? (that’s rhetorical, as I trust everyone on here knows exactly where I am coming from.)

My question again is: did any of you get so tired, sad, scared, lonely, depressed? that you had to struggle with giving up, but kept hoping things would change? that you engaged in behaviors yourself that you knew weren’t good for a healthy relationship? I struggle with this and sometimes wonder if I am the narcissist, which gnaws at me. I knew I should have walked away; in fact I tried about I’d say 7-10 times in all. Never really said: “I’m done,” but more of a defeated…”I can’t do this anymore.”
But I was so bonded to that little boy, and eventually my daughter; never really was able to connect with the oldest, but sadly he has problems, similar to what she did/keeps doing, but I tried, I tried so hard. They first told me when they decided they were going to keep the boys together…at which point I was losing my ‘son,’ half-time, even if his father had the right to see him more often, it still hurt very much, that he had autism. So what did I do? I spent 20 hours reading about autism awareness to try and prepare myself.

I won’t paint myself as a saint or some innocent victim, completely void of any wrong doing, in fact a part of me hates myself, because she found that darkest part of me, the part that was created after my ex-fiance aborted the pregnancy a few years prior, and pulled it out with such force.
I vowed after the abortion, where I felt so helpless, it’s a long story, but I know there was a heartbeat, I heard it; we only had one ultrasound. I was so excited and asking the doctor all sorts of questions, while she had her coat on and was ready to leave; that I would never be in a position where I am helpless to change anything. But here I was again, where I started off asking nicely, then I started pleading, then begging, then yelling, then name calling–the last of which got her attention; the results didn’t change, the help didn’t come, but it sure as hell gave her the excuse to say: “well…see what you did?”
She took the best parts of me and turned me against her. I was brought down to her level. Every time I would try to reconnect, it went well for a couple of days, then it was right back to the old habits. Each time I ‘broke up’ with her, she’d become mother of the year, housewife of the year—for about two days…just long enough for me to come back. I can almost laugh about it now, that one time my older sister was like: “whoa bro, pump the friggin’ brakes, she’s been doing this for 2 days, give it a little time before you decide she finally gets it.”

I wrote all of that, but the question is what I would like some feedback on; as I really don’t want any of you to relive your trauma.
If you all think I am just some asshole, that would really suck (defense mechanism much? a guy who was taken advantage of and the negative stigma associated with it?), as I could show you the sweet somethings that were uttered when we first began speaking; amazingly Yahoo IM kept all of that, so the emails where I was begging for her to be my partner, my teammate, rather than another child I have to worry about providing for and taking care of.

I’ll close on this; there are so many things that still baffle me to this day, yes, I am still very raw, not even healing yet really, because I lost my daughter half-time as part of this and my ‘son,’ full-time; The other day I asked her ex-husband if he still remembered when he found out that, because I let it slip, because I didn’t know she was lying to him about it, she was calling me ‘daddy,’ every single day to ‘baby boy,’ and he did remember it; told me it f—– him up real good; that it was one of the worst things she ever did to him.

the thing I meant to say that baffles me: is how she could “miss me,” less than 5 minutes after a fight; almost as though she was a dog or something…

(thank you for anyone who reads this ‘snippet’ and furthermore responds to the question therein; 22 months should not have felt like 22 years…)

    Cathy says June 21, 2017

    I have lived in hell for 3 years. He has cheated several times and is mad if I say that he cheated. He can be really nice ,if he wants me to buy him something, but at a drop of a hat, silence for days on end. Calls me crazy and I need help. Everything is my fault always. I use to have such a happy spirit and he crushed it. Anytime he wants to have an affair he gets mad at me so he can leave and be with someone else. He never regrets the hurt he has caused me, he says everything is my fault. The silence and uncaring is what really hurts and he is good at it.

ashley honey says March 19, 2015

Is there anyway I can keep my 2 young boys from being this way???

    Kim Saeed says March 19, 2015

    Ashley, I don’t know what your circumstances are, but if you’re still in the toxic relationship, there is a very high likelihood that your boys will grow up to be either narcissistic or codependent. These two defense mechanisms are formed during our formative years, up to around the age of seven or so.

    These are two conditions that have been passed down through many generations when there is dysfunction in the home.

Dona says February 9, 2015

When my son was around 24 I noticed changes. He is now 32 and I have been treated badly for sometime. I didn’t really get it for a long time. At some point I realized I was being groomed and then asked for money. At other times I was asked to meet him and his new wife (wife #1 was cheated on and her and my grandson dumped – nothing) This child has a new “Dad” but has had no contact with my son for 5 years) many times for lunch and then I hear nothing the day comes and goes and I used to be left to wonder what happened. I went to visit them for Christmas and said something wrong and was discarded for 5 months – my son was everything to me and I went into a kind of shock that led to me sitting on the couch, shaking, crying and then numb for three days until i ended up in pysc ICU. I was in terrible shape for 5 months and would cry daily. I just didn’t get it. I had seen him cut off his gramma – my mom around the time he was 18 and it hurt me but I was so naïve that I was in denial and really didn’t understand. After 5 months of being ignored (discarded) I got a picture of my Grand Daughter via email and he phoned and said “I’m just giving you a heads up we are getting married in….. I thought it was a cold way to ask your mom to a wedding but still being a loving idiot victim I scraped what little money I had and went to the wedding. I so needed his approval and what I thought was love. I was treated like a queen – the other grand parents weren’t interested in baby sitting but of course being single and trying to please and be loved I was always able to stay with baby. Not that I was asked too much but – I was the one who was shinning bright in my sons eyes. I felt amazing. Came home and there were times lots of pictures came in to my phone of Grand daughter and some times very little contact.

Approximately a year later I moved to the province both my kids live in. I wanted to be closer to my kids and Grandchildren. Since his former wife lives here he said I will never visit you there and then he said why can’t you move somewhere in between my sister and I? I said in between them was too expensive for me to have my own home. I truly believe I am being punished for being closer to his hated sister than him. My son cancelled my first trip to see him, too busy. The second trip to meet him and then go to the states ended with a text to do it and then ignored me the whole weekend and when I phoned Monday said something that made little sense but it worked for him – his daughter hurt her arm – whatever … Next Christmas this year. Wanted me to drive up I said yes but was hesitant as I come from extremely beautiful weather in another province and am not used to driving in snow and ice and I was nervous. When I started to pull back and say I am not sure about driving between Christmas and New years he yelled at me and berated and told me the other grand parents would be there in a nanosecond. He was so loud my sister was visiting and she could hear him and I could not get a word in edgewise but I didn’t know what to say anyway.. He told me not to come

Having forgot my plan to be a step ford mom (which kind of worked) to have him in my life I wrote an email and said that it was not a good way to treat me and I treated him with respect and he might want to do the same. I would be there on the 28th and everything would be fine I was just feeling a trepidations about the drive …

A day before my trip he phoned and told me not to come as we were not in the right space at this time.

He stopped phoning and when I started to phone he asked me on another trip to meet them and the other grand parents and I was ignored and never text back after the first invitation.

I twigged into the grooming for money a few years back. I was devastated when he first discarded me. I now know he has replacements – 2 sets of grand parents and I don’t count now.

I remember a little boy who I thought loved me – I really think he was there before about 15.

I am a very spiritual woman and very loving and giving. My heart was broken but I am tying to mend. I have not contacted him. His father I found out after a few years of marriage was similar in that he was manipulative, perhaps anti-social personality and probably a narcissist as well. My daughter is a good mom and she is also quite closed off but I think it is because her father did things like my son did to me. My son and daughter have no contact. My daughter will not tolerate his treatment. I am slowly weaning myself mentally off him. I have, as I said, no verbal or physical contact with him. I have made a commitment to love myself. I have made a commitment to let go. I have never felt such pain. My children are damaged and I know we all have our own path to follow and all that as I believe in that spiritual journey. My beliefs are strong and I try every day to stay in the moment and be grateful and grow and live my life. That does not mean I do not cry. I cry a lot. I am working on mending my broken heart. I think when it is your child it is excruciating pain. I took me 15 years to heal from his fathers narcissistic abuse and I didn’t love him anymore and he hurt my children. I will deal and mend I am glad I found you. Thank you! I have read some things about this personality disorder as well as BPD as I am wondering if there is a component of that in his personality as well. You have given clear answers to questions I didn’t know to ask and I finally know that this is not about love as there is none. It is not about me because I am nothing to him but a “thing” to serve his ego and since there is no cure I must cure myself. I will say I have never felt such pain and loss, however, I will survive and see him for what he truly is and love him because I am his mother just stay far away as it is amazing how this personality disorder can shatter the person who loves him or her.

Anonymous says December 8, 2014

Are narcissistic people alienation’s also ?
I believe a Narcissus in my family has alienated me from my family!
Being there is no way to attempt to reach a Narcissist’s “true self, there is noway of undoing the damage that she has done over 44 years in some cases.
I have to explain a bit more! I had a very abusive mother who used my sister as her ally throughout the years until even the day she died. She pitted the four of against each other, actually the two she allied against the two of us she abused. She left me go at 16, she could no longer could abuse me or control me the way she had, and when I had left, she continued with my youngest sister, my youngest sister passed last year her boyfriend said the doctor had said it was an “accidental suicide”, later he changed his story and said it was a “heart attack”.. I am sending for her death cert. so to find the truth.
My brother was 15 years younger than I. I am the oldest, 2 yrs, my sister made him her ally in the Alienation! I don’t know if that all made sense. Hopefully it did and if it did maybe you have some sort of answer than can help me to let go.
Letting go has been the most difficult lesson of my life, and I feel that If I don’t learn to deal with it now they will have won! I have learned so much by reading this page.
I only started this “core issue” one that manifested itself three months ago in the 40 years of therapy. There is so much more to this story, it is complex dysfunctional and I am working on it now.
I was doing some research and found about the Alienator and I have worked in Psyche for over 15 yrs. I am trying to piece it together so I can let it go. I want to be at peace at least with myself.
I feel sorry for my brother he accomplished so many hurdles in his life, but never dealt with any issues that I know of. My sister takes all the credit for him getting where he is and he doesn’t know it! I want to forgive them, but I think you can only do that in the acceptace stage. I have only just begun with this topic I am still angry! I know I am strong..I will get through this

bren says July 17, 2014

Hi Kim

I have been reading every article and post possible for the past couple of weeks.
I am almost back to my” being me” again. I have always been the nurturer, peacekeeper, empathetic and compassionate friend.
after dating a N for 4 months, everything a I learned about them is real and I now realize that the relationship I was in before this guy for 7 years on again off again, was the EXACT PERSONALITY.
my inquiry is this:
What in the world did these lost souls do to deserve a life so demeaning, unfullfilled and so void if love. Isnt LOVE the center core of ALL living things?
Im not defending their behavior in any way, but I feel so much sadness that any human being has to live this way by what sounds like of an unconditional circumstance of when they were young and innocent.
can you give me some insight on how a once complete soul cant be complete again after being severely damaged ?

    Kim Saeed says July 17, 2014

    Bren, thank you for reading my blog and for reaching out.

    I believe Narcs come from one of three scenarios: 1) Born that way, 2) turned into one because of a painful childhood, or 3) had overly permissive parents who never taught them accountability and praised them for everything.

    #s 1 and 3 don’t know love or empathy and probably never will. #2 may have as a child, but because of severe emotional trauma, lost their capacity for empathy and love. The curious part to this type of Narc is that other children who experience equally traumatic childhoods grow up to be empathic nurturers and healers.

    If you’re wondering about the spiritual aspect of it, I believe we are going through a global awakening and Narcs are here to wake us up to our higher selves, but we have to hit rock bottom and experience the soul-shattering that goes along with being in a relationship with them. Only then do we analyze our lives and make the decision to heal our souls and become enlightened. Whether they will receive good or bad Karma I don’t know. I suppose that depends on if they chose to be a Narcissist in order to be a catalyst for people to go through this awakening. Or, if they are simply evil for evil’s sake, then karma will indeed come for them eventually.

      Wazakauye Zulu says May 4, 2017

      The narc in my life has the unfortunate disadvantage of people believing what I say when I tell them about him. He’s not subtle and he abused me publicly as well as he doesn’t hide his grandiose narcissist fantasies. So he hates me all the more and blames me for the fact that people can see his ugly emptiness.
      It’s laughable. I made the mistake severally of thinking apologizing for lashing out against his abuse (I felt genuine remorse) and he took that as an opportunity to project and verbally abuse, threaten physical violence and try to make me seem inferior. To no avail because I didn’t cry like he wanted.

D says July 13, 2014

I have just gotten out of a Narc relationship. I am feeling pretty good, a sigh of refief since it has been going on for 2 and 1/2 years (I know not long but we were together when young and when he was not full blown). I fell for it all hook line and sinker. My best friend, even my 90 year old mother told me I was not treated right but I had just come out of a divorce and it felt good and safe. HA!! We only have ourselves to save us. They won;t change, but we CAN…that is my saving grace. I can change me…he will always be him. I need to say that I have been on the receiving end of some pretty vile verbal abuse and one night I couldn;t take his mouth and I hauled off and slapped him in the face, he continued, I slapped him again and then he shut up…he was indignanat since no one in his life had done that…I also am the only one who has ever told him NO. Since that day, almost 6 months ago I have never heard the end of me being a pyscho physical abuser who has a vile temper, am crazy, insecure. and have tunnel vision because I only see my perspective and not his…he even threatened to have me arrested for assault..I am 5’8″ tall and weigh 123 lbs and my Dad was a cop, so I told him call the police…I ‘ll even turn myself in if it will make you happy..it would be worth the look on the cops faces when this 5″8 skinny woman slapped this 5’9″ mans face for calling her vile stuff that I won’t repeat. I am out….and to this the universe has seen fit to punish him…be careful because someone is always listening. He now suffes from tunnel vision and now needs eye surgery. What a sense of humor my deceased father has sending this ailment down to teach my Narc a lesson….thanks Dad…I know when the pass and are up in heaven their perspective changes and they see things here in a whole new light. My Dad sees his alcoholism caused trouble for me and our relationship and he now watches over me and takes care of me from the other side. Have hope ladies you are all strong (even when you think you can;t be…you can) and you can chnage you and go on to a better existence…the Narc can’t, they have to keep finding new sources of supply…have pity on those in their path.

    Kim Saeed says July 14, 2014

    Dear D,

    Thank you so much for stopping by and sharing your story. By the way, I bet you’re not the only one who got tired of the nasty verbal assaults and hauled off/put the Narc in their place. In fact, I snapped a time or two before I left. I guess that was another sign for me to leave because anyone who knows me knows I’m not the kind of person who uses aggression. I’ve always been the mediator/peace-maker/advice-giver…

    Yes, Karma has a great way of delving out due course. I’m glad you are able to see signs from God/Universe. 🙂 Indeed, we can change and use the experience to become better people, meaning having the ability to experience joy and happiness.

      cathy says June 21, 2017

      My narc called me so many names, so vile, I couldn’t repeat them, over and over and he also gave me a concussion. Still he never says he is sorry. I feel sorry for the next girl he is with.

bethbyrnes says May 9, 2014

All of your posts on this topic are so accurate, based on my personal and admittedly anecdotal experience. Most important is the idea of the new source of supply. Narcissists do tend to go through many relationships — some long term, but they always end. Once mine got my commitment (engagement), he morphed into a different human being. Gone was the solicitous courting. Now my every female reaction to his coldness became a liability. I believe many male narcissists are repressed homosexuals. They would be healthier, were they to embrace their sexual preferences, rather than trying to overcome them. Mine clearly hates women, starting with his mother and his sister. He was always trying to win his mother’s love, but she preferred his sister. She even put him in a dress once at the age of four, when he wanted to play with his sister and her friends (they are only 11 months apart in age). Every psychologist here, knows what the ramifications of that kind of bad parenting are likely to be.

When I finally had enough and found someone else, he panicked. First came spying and invading my privacy in such a thorough way that no one would even believe me, that he was capable of such extreme violation. Then came fury and destruction of my property and my reputation. Finally came the needy plea to take him back. Then, when it was clear I was done, he turned to the netherworld to find a new and very desperate victim, as his next source. Whom, of course, he elevated to being the most beautiful, brilliant, amazing woman on earth, and me by comparison a horrible, withered, ugly old crone. He really believed it. It was remarkable.

Thanks for reminding me, Kim! It has been 20 years, I still have him in my life even though I moved on. That old gum on the bottom of my shoe, still … I need to be reminded of why I left and how important it is to block off any possible contact.

    Kim Saeed says May 10, 2014

    You know, Beth…that’s an angle I never considered, but now that you’ve mentioned it, it makes sense. What’s even more bizarre is that I was told a similar story about my Ex during his childhood.

    The spying and invading of privacy is almost the hardest to handle. Mainly because we were under constant surveillance for no good reason. It almost makes one feel dirty even though one’s done nothing wrong. The fury…the smear campaign. I don’t think about those things a lot anymore, but when they were happening it was very disconcerting. The part about being a withered old crone made me laugh. They are so predictable. Mine did the same…told me his girlfriend(s) said I looked old, etc. That no one would want me because I’m in my 40’s. So juvenile, really.

    I think we both stepped on the same gum 🙂

la marlo says May 7, 2014

Before I discovered narcissism, I always knew there was something off with my ex. Often searched online for mother-son incest dynamics, something between them never sat well with me. Over 30, living with mom, calls her by her name, verbally abusive with her etc. What really made my hair raise was when I saw a porn magazine out in the open, who leaves such a thing for their mother to see???…anyway once he started directing his rage at me and saw he was treating me like he does his mother, I knew I was in deep waters. But I was in love by then, single mother, no family support, he was the world to me and boy did he exploit that. Anyway the story is all the same I hung in there hoping he would change, hoping the good guy I once fell in love with would return he never did!!..by the end I lost myself while he was living his life single and free. He adapted my ideas, my ambition and used it to obtain supply. He’d tell the OW that he felt sorry for me and he stuck around for my son because he was already attached…(never lifted more than two fingers to help me raise my child)..its was all a ploy of course to make him look like a savior. At the end he did his final discard of me and I moved far far away. Found narcissism online, never been the same since.!!… He’s hoovered of course after 10+ years of putting up with his crap he thought I would fall back. I was the one who finally ended it, if it were up to him he would be in mylife. But I had to make the hard decision of walking away. There’s no magic pill to get over the pain but once you realize they are the ones who are doomed to be miserable it makes it easier. I don’t regret my ex narc, he taught me how to love me!!…off the dating scene for now but everyday I grow stronger. I have my moments where I feel sad for the man I thought he was, and for the narc he truly is. But I go back online read stories and I feel good again. A year later he’s still womanizing, torturing his new victim, and still looking to get with me. After a while they become so predictable and textbook its pretty sad. I was always creative and artistic, qualities he cant pay for, but he took that from me. Today I’m working on getting the real authentic me back. On learning how to deal with my deep dark issues that allowed a predator to stay in my life so long. Its feels great to know that I have good love to give (he chose me becuase of it)and one day a deserving man will reep the benefits of my passion!!..I’m not looking for revenge or anything from my ex. I’m living by the good ole “the best revenge is a life well lived”. As a victim I’ve learned online that I can’t blame myself, I was chosen by the Narc. Today I’m learning compassion for myself and learning how to set strong boundaries.

    la marlo says May 7, 2014

    *I have to point put that Im no longer in love with the Narc..it took a very long, lonely, painful road to get to this point. Long before I knew about Malignant Narcissism I began the process of emotionally distancing myself from him, his nastiness, ridiculing, no emotions, no love making (it was one sided I felt like a prostitute), and more. Just forced me to pull away, he would change briefly cuddled me, spend money, etc. And would fall back, but as time passed those brief moments would become minuscule, he would revert back to being nasty almost right away. Towards the end(before I knew narcissism)… I would constantly call him out on his mood swings, I would call him bitchy and warn him that I was sick of his crap…I grew to appreciate his discards and silent treatment. Used those times to work out, connect with myself ,focus on my child..at those times when he left and I knew he was with OW, I’d feel moments of relief. I’d sleep better, feel happy.
    At the end of our “relationship”‘(being used very loosely), I learned more and more of his betrayals(sexually deviant) he committed with people I love. Amongst many he offered my sister sex. He was a covert narc, the worst of their kind. But thank God by the time I found out of his betrayal, i’d already learned about this life long , debilitating disease called Narcissism. I suffered of course, my own sister betrayed me ,by withholding this information, thinking she was protecting me from pain, when she was helping the perpetrator. But I know now for sure she was just another victim of his. She didn’t know, as I didn’t fully comprehend the monster he is. I forgive my sister because I know she loves me and she demonstrates it to me everyday. Him on the other hand , didn’t waste my time confronting him, for what???.The truth just helped complete my getting over him. I know now for sure who he is, as a covert only God knows what horrible acts he’s committed against women and children. And got lucky, to be able to find out, at least one of his horrible acts. The good news is today, none of that matters anymore. I am learning what a wonderful person I am. And more than that I’ve learned about my gifts and talents!!..I discoverd I’m an empath!!..I dreamed most of his betrayals long before I knew they were true!!..my guts ,my instincts were all on red alert during my time with the Narc, I just didn’t trust myself…but today I am working on developing my gifts and fullfilling my life’s
    Purpose on this earth!!…Thanks to your blog, Lisa Scott, and others , I’m inspired to tell my story and help men and women come out of their Narc chains. I want to upload self help videos on how to use the silent treatment periods to get yourself right!!

      la marlo says May 7, 2014

      ***one more point I have to stress…I was very protective of my child around him..my child was the one thing he knew he could not hurt(ferocious mother lion)…I taught my child early NOBODY not even mommy touches his privates!!!!..-again my instincts were always on red alert…I felt uncomfortable when a pubescent girl was around him…and now I know why..there was a predator in the room my Narc!!!
      Again I can not stress enough how important it is to get to the bottom of your fears and painful past…I’m still dealing with the aftermath of having a silent predator in my home, in my life undectected. And as an empath the pain is intense!!..but I recommend going through that pain…as it has helped me heal. Thank you again.

        Kim Saeed says May 7, 2014

        La Marlo, I can relate to everything you’ve written today. I, too, have taken the soul lesson from it and am using my experience to teach and help others heal. I’ve learned one must be ready for it, though…

          Gracie says August 31, 2018

          la marlo, I’m amazed at what you wrote! It took me 10 years to piece everything together, but once I did I packed and ran within an hour. I too dreamt about what was coming. At first I would wake up crying, and my narc would ask what the dream was, and I, trusting, would tell him. He always scoffed at my belief that I had in my dreams. I started to buy HIS lie. All of his lies, and I lost myself. I was erased completely! I have now had NO CONTACT for 1 year, and realize that I was chosen for who I was, and then he wanted to erase me for that same reason. I am an empath! I also realized the same as you – he IS a predator (fact, on paper)of children. Never discount your gut feeling!

      Kim Saeed says May 7, 2014

      Again, this is simply awe-inspiring. I would welcome any guest submissions from you, if you’re up for it 😉

      Sundance says January 17, 2015

      Wow!!! It’s like we were living with the same guy. I really appreciate your story. I just broke “no contact” with my Narc. But, now that I understand his pattern and the disorder, I feel so much better about myself and life. There is a light at the end of the tunnel.

      Mary says March 20, 2015

      That is so awesome to hear. I am an empath as well, and all the things he did during his silent treatments would come to me in dreams that literally knocked me out of bed. This is how I declined two marriage proposals from him, knowing that something was wrong with this picture, but not knowing all the details. I followed the dreams and my intuition and was blessed by my angels to not have fallen into this trap. I loved this man more than anyone I have lived in my life. Turns out I was loving the image of my own self he took from me.

    Kim Saeed says May 7, 2014

    Your input has literally made my day. Do you mind if I make a blog post out of this? I can keep it anonymous, or add your name, either way. It’s just that your experiences and mine are very similar. And it seems as an Empath, you were able to take the lesson from it…I could go on, but it would turn into an entire chapter.

      la marlo says May 7, 2014

      Yes Kim!!..of course you can post my story.(anonymously)…I would be honored!..yes I would love to do guest submissions, I have so much to say about my experience..especially being puertorican ,Narcissism is so normal in our culture its pretty horrific. I would love to reach women and men that are afraid to speak out for fear of shame…today I have never felt more comfortable in my own skin..I have the urge, the itch to help..so much passion inside of me, I’m bursting!!!..yes I am 100 percent ready to help as many as I can..thank you again Kim!

      lily says May 9, 2014

      Hi Kim ..I wonder if I fan make done very minor changes to my story before you reblog???after reading again wish I had the option to edit…would of kept some things more ambiguous..know what I mean??..especially my screen name previously ..should of never used it, very fresh for me and I just poured out the typing from the heart without thinking a bit more through as to what specifics to say.such as my very well known to my ex screen name. Wish I could delete this entry after you read it..lol

        Kim Saeed says May 9, 2014

        You can certainly edit it. I won’t do anything you are uncomfortable with! In fact, if you’ve changed your mind, I will understand. I found your input very insightful, but you just let me know how you’d like to proceed 🙂

      lily says August 23, 2014

      Hi Kim this whole recovery process is such a complex thing to go through. At the time when I originally posted, I was so sure, I was fully on the path to recovery but I made a.crucial mistake, I broke no contact !!!..how can I help others when I’m still in the line of fire??..but I can say that after breaking no contact and triple confirming that he is indeed disordered, I feel good again. Once again I’ve gained my strength. My advice is when falling off the no contact wagon, don’t worry…it’ll pass the pain will be there but the knowledge of who he or she really is will make it easier to get back on that wagon and cut them out of your life for good!!..please feel free to re post my previous comment like you wanted..Now I feel ready even more ,especially because I broke no contact, despite what I know. This proves the psychological hold these people have over their victims. And the need victims have to find and maintain support…I want to help.

FAQ Friday – What is a Narcissist Thinking When They Discard You? | Let Me Reach with Kim Saeed says April 25, 2014

[…] wouldn’t last.  They must make you feel at fault for the relationship’s end.  One of the primary goals of the Narcissist is – Accept No […]

Erika Zipay says April 20, 2014

I have to say THANK YOU, all for leaving these posts and these articles, experiences etc. I left my husband after eight years and couldn’t understand what the hell happened, I was reading up on overprotective mothers ( mother inlaw from hell) and came across the word ” narcissistic”. It has changed my life, I read and read and dug into this and discovered not only was my mother inlaw this way, but now my husband. The stories were identical, so much so, I was wondering how on earth could someone know what happened to me. I am two years out of my divorce and starting to heal, thanks to now knowing what a sociopath is and that “yes” I was married to one. No point in sharing my story, as it is the same as everyone else’s. Just wanted to say thanks, for helping me understand and heal.

    Kim Saeed says April 20, 2014

    Thank you for sharing that, Erika 🙂 Wishing you all the best in your continued recovery.

Teela Hart says April 19, 2014

THIS IS SCARY!!!!!! Awesome post once again….
I do despise them………. 🙁 🙁 🙁

Carrie Reimer says April 18, 2014

Mary Lee, I just wanted to say Good luck and God bless you and keep you safe. Fifty years is enough, it is never too late to choose to be happy. You are a strong woman and you can do this, but do be careful!!
It sounds like you have great kids and a son who loves you very much; they deserve to see their mom happy.
Big hugs to you.

daveyone1 says April 18, 2014

Reblogged this on World4Justice : NOW! Lobby Forum..

Beth says April 18, 2014

“…the COMMON narcissist…”
Zing. What a perfect way to get a narc’s goat. After all, they’re all of a kind!

I wish I’d understood this better when I was the target of a narc on the job — that narcissistic abuse is a clear and widespread syndrome. Thankfully, good instincts and good ethics helped to see me through until I could save myself.

The ultimate answer to tyrants is a long, deep belly laugh. And boy howdy, does it piss ’em off.

    Kim Saeed says April 19, 2014

    Beth, ha ha…I didn’t think about it from that perspective, but now that you mention it, it’s rather comical 🙂 You’re right, though…while they are thinking they are unique, 95% of them are cookie-cutter. They all say and do the same things.

    I like your approach to tyranny! LOL 😀

      Beth says April 19, 2014

      Wow, Kim, thanks for the reply and the kind words!

      I can’t claim to practice that rebellious attitude as much as I ought (or would like) to do…but at least I can now laugh inwardly at the pathetic and unoriginal tactics used by the narc I worked for. What a relief it has been to realize that malignant narcs actually are all of a kind.

      Your work on this blog has been a real help to me. I thank you.

    Anonymous says January 19, 2015

    Beth you nailed it, everything you said is gospel truth. I was recently discarded after 15 yrs of marriage, after I scarifice my feelings in order to let him be, more sad we have two children and this treatment was displayed towards them. One night after a few weeks of his silent treatment he came to me and said he is not happy and he is leaving. Immediately after this he would pack a bag and leave every other weekend telling me he is off the radar, this is while I lay in bed in the fetal position sick at sudden discarding of me. I lost 32 pounds in three months, I have weep for days and my emotions are out of control. He asked for a legal separation he want on to say he does not have money for legal fees and hope we can remain friends. After months of him leaving every other weekend I wanted to know where he could be going and with who, of course just about every thought came to my mind. Then one day after crying on my knees and praying, ten minutes after praying I got some information it was an ex girl friend who lives in another state 2 hours away. I filed for divorce, he is so angry when he got it, he displayed it on the refidgerator. I am now left in bind to pay the mortgage, he is now requesting half of the equity.

    Ana Nim says May 22, 2015

    I am so alone. So broken. I was so flipping confused for the whole year she was gone. Nothing made sense. Puzzle pieces in my head trying to figure out or fix it and ever hopeful she would return. Trying to be good. Then she did, then of course as soon as I started to feel a smudge relaxed I found out about the other gf. “Luckily” for me, she directed me here… Once our eyes are open they can not be shut again. Been hoping otherwise. So sad. So sad. Not mad. Just broken. And NO ONE gets it. “You broke up over a year ago…” No, we didn’t, not really… Everyone focused on me being crazy and stuck. But not WHY I was in the first place. Being “part narc” still means it is unsustainable. I am so sad. Everything that was to me my future is not and worse never was. 🙁

Mary Lee Morgan says April 18, 2014

Excellent, Kim, Excellent!

A therapist I had decades ago told me once that my husband wasn’t going to change, and that “if he coulda’, he woulda’.” But that’s about all she was able to tell me about him. I’ve always wondered if she didn’t recognize him for what he was (I suspect that she did after some joint sessions but that’s another long story) or that licensed therapists are bound by some rules that don’t allow them to say certain things. I’ve always suspected the latter. Another professional told me once, when I was going through the typical postulation of “how will I use what I have learned to redeem all of this”, that I really did not want to become a therapist myself because there were going to be things I could say as a non-therapist that I would not be allowed to say if I became a licensed therapist.

Anyway, it’s only been in the past five years or so that I’ve become aware of narcissism and started reading and educating myself. All along, I’d been holding out for change, believing in miracles, trying to establish healthy boundaries, and asking for respect–all if this on eggshells because no matter how respectfully or carefully I did this, I was accused of lashing out in anger and being abusive to him.

Did it really take me all this time to finally accept that change is not possible for him? Or, had I read what you just wrote some twenty or thirty years ago, if I knew then what I know now about narcissism, would I have been able to make different choices than I did? I will never know. I still cannot regret what I did for my family (more long stories–it’s beyond just our kids). There is no way to measure what might have been, or whether our sons would have been better off living in poverty with a single mom or living as they did–with mom and dad still together but in this wretched kind of relationship.

I am certain at this point, however, that the best thing I can do for the kids and grandkids and the rest of my extended family is to have my own life at last, and let them see what that looks like, and let us all discover what our relationships will be when I am not under the thrall of this N and not being constantly hoovered in and then sucked dry. Our youngest son told me one day recently, “Mom, for my whole life your and dad’s relationship has been a train wreck. It would be nice, some time in my life, to see it end.”

So here I am, nearly fifty years in to this marriage, and having sacrificed for him over and over, and having reaped what he has sown over and over, finally getting it that he is never going to change. The well-meaning “church ladies” can say what they will.

I liked your story about the lizard–it reminds me of something I learned in 12-step rooms years ago. Trying to get them to change is “like trying to teach a pig to sing. It doesn’t work and it annoys the pig.” I have said that to myself, and I have said it to others. Yet in my heart of hearts, I was buying into his increasingly convincing façade, wanting to believe that this was change, that somehow this was his real self, that somehow this was growth. My gut knew better, but I didn’t want to listen. What my gut is telling me now is to be careful, be very careful, in executing my exit strategy, because as long as I am still here, he isn’t panicked or pissed–yet.

    More Wiser Now says April 19, 2014

    Mary Lee, Don’t concern yourself with “the Church ladies” because UNTIL they have walked in your shoes, they can’t imagine the hell that you have endured. I too was married to a narcissist (for 9 years) until I had enough and got out. I struggled at first with guilt for ending my marriage, falsely thinking that I didn’t have “just grounds.” The person who changed my mind was a priest of all people! (I am not Catholic, but an evangelical Christian). What he said to me reverberated me to reality. He said “From what you have told me, it appears that your husband NEVER took on the vows of marriage.” You see, a husband is to love his wife and give himself up to her, like Christ has done for the Church. (See Ephesians 5:25 for the reference). My ex refused to wear his wedding ring (even after buying a second one that was more “comfortable”); would go “out” on Friday nights wearing cologne and not telling me where he was going/what he was doing; and he seldom if EVER thanked me for anything or showed his appreciation. Ask yourself this: How often (if ever) does my husband practice “perfect love” to me? 1 Cor 13:4-6 tells us what it should look like. “Love is patient, love is kind, it is not envious. Love does not brag, it is not puffed up. It is not rude, IT IS NOT SELF-SERVING, it is not easily angered or resentful. It is not glad about injustice, but rejoices in the truth. Vs 7 bears all things; believes all things; hopes all things; endures all things (this verse is about other people’s reputation). That we bear their bad deeds without broadcasting them to the world. In a reciprocal, loving relationship, this is pretty easy to uphold. It is not so easy in a repeative abusive relationship. The point of me bringing up these scriptures is to demonstrate what perfect love and charity looks like. Both husband and wife need to PRACTICE these virtues for the relationship to grow and thrive. My ex wasn’t a Christian and knew nothing of these virtues. I, in essence was un-equally yoked to him. Fast forward 18 years later (post divorce) and I am re-married to a Godly, Christian man who PRACTICES these virtues each and every day! My Ex (Narc) has remained un-married and is still secretive; conniving; and selfish. Don’t WASTE another day staying with “the child of the devil!”) Read the Gospel of 1st John to understand the difference. God wants his beloved to live in peace; to experience joy; and to be whole so that we can be a blessing to others. When you live with oppression; un-fairness; condemnation; selfishness; and manipulation you will either a) take on these negative characteristics yourself (you fuse with your abuser) or b) will be reduced to a shadow of your former self. We look to the person most closest to us for affirmation; love; and worth. Narcissists steal your “worth” and suck you dry. You are rendered empty and void of anything worth giving to others because how can you GIVE others what you no longer possess? A Narc will use you/abuse you until you take your last final breath, then they will be angry at you for leaving them!

      Laurie says December 7, 2015

      Thank you. Your post was very helpful.

Phill Ferreira says April 18, 2014

Reblogged this on The Story of my Twin Boys , Oliver and Oscar Ferreira and commented:
A great article once again Kim 🙂

    Kim Saeed says April 18, 2014

    Thanks, Phill! Good to see you stop by on this lovely Friday 🙂

      Phill Ferreira says April 18, 2014

      🙂 have a great weekend !

Carrie Reimer says April 18, 2014

Reblogged this on Ladywithatruck's Blog and commented:
Kim nails it again! Believe me, they can be (appear) heart broken, beg you back, promise you the world, have tears streaming down their face and a ring in their hand, be down on one knee and the only thing they are thinking is “I am going to make this bitch pay for having the audacity to leave me before I could destroy her.”

thenarcissistwrites says April 18, 2014

This is accurate.

    Kim Saeed says April 18, 2014

    Thank you 🙂

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