The One Thing You Need to Know About Narcissists

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Caron says July 17, 2018

This morning my marriage of almost 3 years has ended. I found out two weeks ago that he has cheated repeatedly. He blames it on my of course, and when I bring up the girls he spits out, “You still don’t realize what you did.” He took and he took, and he gave too, and he hated me because I didn’t let him go. He says that’s why he cheated, because I took away his free choice. I’ve been treated to EVERY narcissistic trick in the book – lying, cheating, physical abuse, triangulation, two-faced, smearing, gas-lighting, the noose of guilt, etc. This has been the worst relationship of my life. Thank God we did not have kids.

It has also been the relationship in which I’ve grown the most. The mirror he provided has let me know who I am, and all of his attempts to make me feel bad about myself have met with resounding failure. I have healing to do from the emotional abuse, but I have God. That’s why I will survive. And when I am ready to love again, because of what I learned about myself from my narc, I am going to make the next guy’s life absolutely awesome.

I will not allow my heart to become hard because of this dark man. It isn’t even hard towards him now, despite everything. There is some part of me he was unable to touch. For the growth I have received, I can forgive him. But I’m still going to get rid of him. I am done with the abuse. He will go on and have the same awful relationship with the next girl, and the next, while my life is just going to keep getting better. Yes, I can forgive him.

Cara Solomon says December 21, 2017

I was with a narc for 10 years (he was married but separated and living with his parents) always getting a “divorce.” He just turned 50 years old. I never trusted him or had a day of peace. His wife started snooping around on social media and was leaving remarks on my page. I had enough so I called her and said we needed to talk. I explained that we were together for 10 years and so on. She said she was also still with him in fact he tried to sleep with her just the other day. She also stated he has 2 other girlfriends. I confronted him and he said she’s crazy and I’m getting rid of her because I love you. He told her he didn’t know me or ever love me and I’m a trouble maker. Wow!! Needless to say I blocked him and I initiated no contact. She took him back and he went home to her. 10 years!! I devoted my life to him. I sacrificed everything to make him happy. Everyday he told me how much he loved me and now I know it was just all lies. I looked the other way because I loved him. I’m devastated and I look like a fool. Will I ever overcome this, it’s been 6 weeks and I can’t think of anything else. I’m losing my mind. I sent his wife all the text messages from him..how he said I’m the only woman he ever loved etc… she didn’t seem to care? He denied our entire relationship and walked away like I never existed.
CS

John says June 5, 2017

I was conned just like the rest, I’m 51 didn’t even know what a narcissist was, but oh do I know. We met on line and our first date was like no other, we went to a pro baseball game, she knew I was into sports and she got the tickets a blind baseball game date, it was like fire works. She had two boys her and her x-husband adopted from the UK, and of course they were screwed up by her but she had everyone believing they were like that from birth NOT!!!!!! Her first husband committed suicide from who I wonder, and of course it was because he was an alcoholic. Her second husband who she adopted the boys with she met through a friend and moved to the UK and stayed married with him until his parents passed and left him 2.5 million dollars she told him she was home sick and moved back to the states and they bought a home for 425,000 dollars cash after back it the states husband two got tired of her staying out all hours of the night and knew she was cheating on him that’s when he put his foot down and was discharged or walked away. I know this because after my 7 year relationship with her we have become friends and put all the lies together. One of her boys is in prison because of her, the scapegoat child, this has been a total nightmare for me and my family that this kind of evil needs to be exposed, these soulless monster’s need to be stopped. I did talk to boys doctor’s and expose her to the neighbors but she got a PPO put on me so I would stop the exposer, I have been out and getting my mind, heart, health and finances back but I know I still have a long road ahead of me but I can see sunshine at the end of the road.

Jan says June 4, 2017

Am I confused or in denial? Hummm… married for 23 years (still) to what I believe is a narc or sociopath. How do I tell? Does it matter? I’ll be reading your insightful material and come to a descriptor of a narc that doesn’t match my experience and think, “Ah Ha! He ISN’T a NARC!” But in my heart I believe he is! I have moved out of state and told him he has a year to learn new behaviors and seek help. I need to PROVE to myself that he IS a NARC so I can move on emotionally.

How do I do that? Why am I letting him “off the hook” because of 1 or 2 traits that don’t match up. Or… that I don’t recognize as matching up!?

Blessings,
Jan

Beka says May 25, 2017

My father was a mild narcissist, I believe. He was never really awful, but everything had to be about himself, getting the attention, having his way, pleasing his desires. He was a hard worker, faithful to my mom, a great provider. But he had to have the lead in conversation, never be interrupted, always feel respected, be acknowledged as the husband, father, minister, employee. My parents almost broke up when I was 15, but worked it out. In January, my dad passed, having the love and loyalty of his wife of almost 55 years.

Cheryl says July 18, 2016

Kim: For a relationship with a narcissist to last, does the non have to KNOW that the narcissist is a narcissist, how they work, etc.; or could the person just be so insecure and naive and codependent that it just works? While I didn’t know my ex was NPD at the beginning, it didn’t take but a week or two to realize something was terribly wrong; I just let her convince me it was for reasons other than that she was a narcissist (I think that works with most people; but it will not lead to a long-term relationship in my case). Thoughts?

Nicole Greaney Cavan says October 26, 2015

Evil, fake, parasites. Nothing lasts with them because there is nothing there and never was. It was just a show you fell for. They love only themselves. They lie, manipulate and cheat and somehow you or a crazy ex is to blame. Never them. Great articles. I was conned for a few years by John. I see it all now.

Kathy says February 28, 2017

Bingo, I went thru this same behavior the way u described it. The show they put on is real & once the hunt is over & they get what they want, they don’t know what to do with u. I never saw any red flags in the beginning, just knew something started slowly changing & wasn’t right after the first year of marriage. My advice is get out while the going is good! They will destroy u if u stay.

Gary says April 7, 2017

I was just released by my narcissistic sociopathic girlfriend after 1.5 years of what I assumed was love. Well, it was a two way love affair; I loved her and so did she.
The attraction phase was set up with intense sex, her drug to addict me. She was vain, took hours to make herself up and was always taking selfies. She had an alter ego that she called Hollywood and her idol was Marilyn Monroe. She embarrassed me a number of times and once got up on a stage at a burlesque show to do a seductive dance with another girl from the audience.

Red flags, can anyone say red flags? Laughing out loud
Anyhow, at the beginning she acted as if she adored and loved me and wrote love letters and even wrote on me with sharpies, drawing hearts, etc. all over me. She went so far as to draw up a list of things that we would do: make love under the stars, visit exotic places, ballroom dancing, you name it. Only problem, she had no money and lived off of daddy. Promised me a cruise. Guess who probably would have paid for that?

I was carefully cultivated and picked by her. I was older, financially secure and had my own place. I lavished dinners, jewelry and clothing upon her. I was hooked.

She did the mirroring very well. I was into gardening and birds. All of a sudden, she was buying plants and shrubs, hummingbird feeders; you name it. Not a month later, most of the plants were dead (like my one sided love affair), the feeders were never filled again and discarded. She did the deny and discard even with inanimate objects. She just plain lost interest.

Fast forward to the past few months. I moved in temporarily to help with her kids and became a houseboy of sorts (I know, you can only allow people to take advantage if you let them).

Last month, the sex and faux intimacy dried up, but she still needed me to do errands and help out. We had a minor argument that day. Feeling that something was going on, I confronted her and she snapped telling me she was stressed.

An hour later, I get a text telling me it was over and to please leave. Same afternoon she unfriended me on FB and my friends as well. Next day she was back on the site where I first hooked up with her.

No doubt she had either been starting to cultivate another fool or began cheating.
I was torn up inside; no sleep, not much eating and my mind was in turmoil.

Fortunately, I was contacted by others that she had done this to. She is merely a superficial shell, nothing more. Never accomplished anything that she had to work and sweat for. I am better for this experience. I can move forward and enjoy the fruits of my labor. All she can do is suck the life force from men’s (and women’s souls, since I also found she was bi).

And she did the D/D discard/deny perfectly. Never responded to me. She is devoid of love, guilt or remorse. Loving people try to work through their issues, narcissists work through their victims!

Lisa Renee says August 3, 2017

I’m sorry you went through this. My current relationship mirrors, only I married the guy. He was broke when we met. Did all the things you could imagine. I was swepted away by his charm. Helped him build his business to a 3 income figure while I slowly discarded my career. The moment we married, everything changed. Forward 2 years I discovered who he was. All the pieces came together in my mind and it felt like my whole being was betrayed, except my soul. I have a very strong relationship with the Lord. He mirrored that well too. So sadistic. Heart wrenching to see this from a spiritual perspective. To know the one you love despices you and that his soul is possibly unreachable. Something I must give to the Lord daily. I just lost my twin sister last month to a 7 week battle with aggressive cancer. So this was an opportune time for him to discard me. I told him I new who he was (his daughter heard this). His daughter supplies him with maximum supply. He loves the idea of making me feel discarded when she is around. Quite sickening to see a grown man act like this. He then left when he discovered I knew who he was. Left with his daughter. They went back to his parents (where I initially found him) and there was no contact for one week. He didn’t this often. Gave me the silent treatment to “punish” me. A week later he served me divorce papers, telling me not to get greedy. Ironic, huh? A week later here I am. He tried to suck me dry, but my faith is too strong. I could not allow myself to worship this massive ego. I despised it. He hated me for that. I only bow to the Lord Jesus. He knows that, says I brought him to Christ. I’ll never know this side of heaven if this is true, but I pray often he will be able to repent. This is the only thing that will save him. I know I must move on. Tomorrow he will be here to gather his clothes and bike. He’s leaving me with the house. Ha, it’s my house!!! That’s all he wants. He is deeply afraid of me, but will never show it. He will manipulate every word I say. My brother will be here. I’m sure he’ll charm him and the game goes on and on. I want now to learn as much as I can about this evil thing that has happened to me so I can help others. My younger sister is going through the same thing, but she doesn’t feel her abusive alcoholic husband is a “narcissist”. She takes all kinds of coping drugs and is sick a lot. My sister is beautiful, smart and caring, and this man has sucked the life out of her for the last 10 years. These lost souls are leaches, and until Christ returns, we will be dealing with them. Hind site is easy, to have had the knowledge I have now would have saved me from the incredible heartache I suffered, but then again, may the Lord use me to reveal His truth to warn others.

Ret says July 30, 2015

Dear Kim…..Your articles continue to arm me with much needed knowledge. This one is so thorough, and I feel it explains what many of us have experienced in a relationship with a narcissist. They “DO NOT” change…..for anyone! I’m at the point where I am praying for my ex’s new supply. I know she doesn’t deserve what is to come. The damage they can do is enormous! The interesting thing you mentioned is how they are the nicest to others. This is so true. My ex treated his own family (wife & kids) like garbage. His own family enables him. They can see odd behavior but they still see this smart & caring guy. It has always baffled me.

Kim Saeed says August 4, 2015

Thank you for stopping by, Ret.

You know, regarding his family thinking he’s “smart and caring” – that could well be true, but there’s another possibility that’s not often talked about. Many times, the family knows about the narcissist’s dysfunction. In fact, it’s very likely that one of his parents is narcissistic, because that’s typically how a child grows up to have narcissistic traits. They don’t want to accept any accountability or let people know they are aware of the narc’s pathology, so they go on playing the charade of, “Oh, he doesn’t mean it. He’s a good guy at heart”, etc.

It’s also how they manipulate the narc’s partner(s) into staying with him or her because the family doesn’t want to deal with the narcissist, so they try to shove him or her off on other people by playing the “he’s good at heart” card.

Ret says August 7, 2015

Thanks Kim….I can tell you my ex was adopted, and he’s suffered abuse throughout his childhood. He opened up to me when we first met about sexual abuse. He cried, and my heart broke for him. I was always afraid to leave him, or walk out because I didnt want to hurt him in that way. He’s left several times, and it was a terrible experience, yet I was protecting him from feeling that pain. The very pain he was putting me through over and over.
His family I believe is aware of his odd behavior as they’ve mentioned it at times….but they don’t have a name for it. It took me about 2 years of researching to finally figure out what was going on in my relationship. I can see addiction, eating disorders, and codependency throughout his family. I’ve known for awhile that I was basically addicted to my ex but could not figure out why. We have children so NC is difficult but I do my best to go as far as I can with NC. It’s the only way. He will try to control and manipulate every encounter we have. It could be the smallest thing…he will try to control it. It’s truly exhausting! Thank you again for educating us!!!!

Meridian says July 30, 2015

While you’re clearly well informed on the ideas of narcissistic tendencies in a relationship, to say that narcissists are stuck that way is closed minded. Just like any mental disorder, narcissists can learn to change and adapt. Also like other disorders, it may take years of therapy and you cannot force them to help themselves. It’s especially tedious to support a narcissist through their issues because of their blatant disregard for your feelings, so assuming they break up with every person they date, it’s ultimately up to them to grow and change.

I didn’t know there was a phrase for it, but yeah, I’m empath/sensitive too. I’ve spent the better part of the past 5 years analyzing my ex girlfriend’s feelings. All the ins and outs of her anxieties, fears, how they affect her, what the reactions mean, and understand her feelings. Having her leave, as if she never put value in our relationship/friendship has left me at a hollow point in my life, where I’m reading articles about the condition she actively ignores. Again, can’t make somebody do what they don’t want. No matter how much you care.

To the point, your article made me feel better about losing her, but it’s a little jaded and misconstrued. the core of a human can change. They just have to want that change first, and be willing to put in the effort.

Kim Saeed says August 4, 2015

Meridian, thank you for stopping by and commenting. I suppose my writing may come across as jaded or close-minded, but that’s probably because I have yet to come across one case where a full-blown narcissist made any long-lasting changes. My conclusions are based on the work of colleagues who are licensed therapists, my own research in the areas of neuroscience and psychology, as well as having worked with victims of narcissistic abuse for over two years.

For a person to want to change, they must first acknowledge that their behaviors hurt other people, which requires a certain element of empathy and conscientiousness – two things which narcissists don’t possess. They may change for a while if they’ve lost things such as their home, career, and/or family, but typically, the changes are simply to get their creature comforts back, and then they go back to business as usual.

I do believe in miracles, don’t get me wrong…it’s just I’ve not come across “that one narcissist” who made any real changes to his or her core self.

Lisa says May 28, 2015

I’ve been married 29 years, and now recognize my husband as a narcissist. Me as an enabler. Not sure what to do next, we still have a teenager in the house. But, I do feel woken up. He is out of town, and things seem to get clearer and clearer with every day he is gone. I have been in therapy for almost 2 years, and am only now seeing, honestly what I am dealing with. One thing, I will no longer do is sit and listen to the verbal abuse, because I too, saw the wounded child in him, and thought he just needs to get this off his chest. Today, with my therapist I spoke about how, just the other day when I was being ridiculed by him, and made to feel if we lose all that we have built (house, money, etc) it somehow is my fault! In that moment, I described how I saw myself step outside myself to see in him the wounded child. Big mistake! Call the abuse as it is happening, says my therapist.

It sounds like the only way out of this is to leave. Big step. I don’t want to do anything too fast.

Marie says May 23, 2015

Hi ladies… I have an 8 month old son and I’ve been with my husband for 13 years (I was 18 and he’s 23 years older than me). Unfortunately (or not – if I’d realised sooner I wouldnt have my boy!), it took having my son to realise that my husband is a raging narcissist and now I’m really panicking about the influence he will have on/the damage he will do to my darling boy. I just dont know what to do… If I leave, he’ll have unsupervised access to him which to me feels much, much worse! I dread to think what he’d do to him without me around. Hubby is textbook (so much so it’s frightening!!) – I just cannot fathom how it’s taken this long for the penny to drop. But then, I think I need to acknowledge that I’m a textbook co-dependent. My boy is my whole world and having had a very abusive childhood myself, I’d do anything to protect him from the same. He is already parading him around like a trophy in public – the doting dad who does absolutely nothing to help me at home and knows nothing about our son and his needs. I’m managing it by gatekeeping at the moment but I obviously cant continue that forever, and it wouldnt be fair on my son anyway. Can I stay in this marriage and co-parent without my son inheriting those traits or being damaged by his fathers illness? Will me being a ‘normal’ parent and trying to protect him be enough?? I am already suffering the effects of being married to a narc (13 years on high alert has left me with constant anxiety, zero self-esteem and a real sense of hopelessness). I cry for the vibrant, kind, optimistic, happy, confident girl I was and I feel so sad that my son wont have the mother I was supposed to be… I just want him to have the happy, loving childhood I never had and I’m terrified he’ll suffer the same fate as me now. I feel so guilty for bringing him into a hostile environment. He’s a beautiful, cheeky little boy and Ilove him more than life itself so I dont care what I’ll need to sacrifice to make things good for him; I just dont know what would be the best thing to do. Everything I’ve read says they’ll never change. Apologies for the poorly written post, I’m incredibly exhausted and my brain is so mushed that I cant even spell anymore! x x x

Kim Saeed says August 23, 2016

Hi Marie, thank you for stopping by and commenting. I apologize for not responding sooner as some of my comments got hidden during the transfer of my site to a new host.

To answer your question, typically children who grow up with a narcissistic parent often grow up to be codependent, or worse, narcissistic themselves – both of which are defense mechanisms. Not only do children of narcissists become nothing more than a pawn to the disordered parent, they collect a staggering amount of traumatic events over the course of their childhood which may possibly affect them for the rest of their lives. This is why I never recommend staying in a relationship “for the children” because they will live what they learn, especially that which they learn during their formative years when they are especially vulnerable. Leaving a dysfunctional situation may not be doable in one day, but it’s worth planning for it and looking for alternative options.

Sandy says May 13, 2015

I’ll never forget what happened when it finally dawned on me that he was NOT a good-hearted person and a perfect match for me. I suddenly realized he was SO not like me, so opposite in his morality toward others, so unblinking in his unfairness and skewed justice…that’s when I looked directly into his eyes and said “We aren’t alike! We are nothing alike! We aren’t even standing on the same ground!”
The moment I said that, I saw the pupils of his eyes suddenly dilate ENORMOUSLY then immediately return to normal size…they flashed black for just an instant!!! It stunned me so completely that I stepped back and told him his eyes just flashed black. He laughed and said that was ridiculous. It was very creepy and I got the distinct impression that he was actually a very evil person who had just been figured out…

maryleemorgan says May 11, 2015

Hi SleepingBeauty, I posted a reply then cancelled it because I wanted to add a couple of things, so I hope they don’t both post. If they do, this is my final version!

I have worked so much on those issues you mention. You are so right that you cannot live the inauthentic life that seems to be required to be with someone like that.

As I struggled to “unshift” the blame for the narcissistic abuse back to where it belonged, my anger sometimes sounded like hate, I think, or contempt. But it wasn’t, it was just the hurt coming out as anger, which is a very normal thing. (Great post on another blog about this here: https://graceformyheart.wordpress.com/2015/05/08/my-anger/)

I also had a huge amount of compassion for him. I knew something of the source of his hurt–the hurt way back in his very early childhood that clearly had something to do with his brokenness, the brokenness that turned into the narcissistic behavior I was living with. It was that compassion that kept me trying to find help, to find healing. Remaining unconvinced that anything needed to change, he resisted, and my efforts turned into nothing more than endless tail-chasing.

Just like my hurt-driven anger may have looked to observers like hate or contempt, my compassion-driven efforts at resolution looked to others like I was trying to “fix him” and brought on accusations of co-dependency.

I won’t deny that in my own healing path I had to deal with these things, but deal with them I did. And while others may offer observations, I cannot allow others to tell me what I have or have not done on my own insides when they seem to have concluded that I am hateful and co-dependent. And I had to stop beating myself up about those kinds of things.

A year after leaving, my heart is beginning to settle down. I am moving away from the anger–and from the ongoing rhetoric on my part that makes me sound so angry to others. I want to talk about this rationally, without the crazy-making stuff that happens while still engaged with these players.

I am still compassionate, but had to finally accept that there was simply nothing more I could do. My efforts were not helping him. In fact, because he misinterpreted me and my efforts so completely, they were even hurting him. Staying with him was going to result in nothing more than continued hurt for both of us, and I came to know that I could no longer survive. It is sad, but eventually my only option was to leave.

I want to tell myself that if he had simply left, that would have been the end of it for me, but he didn’t. Unlike a lot of the players out there who leave and then try to maintain multiple relationships, play the lovers against each other, etc., maintaining his relationship with me was part of the good family man image he wanted to project to the outside world. I don’t know if it’s harder to have them leave (being openly rejected) or to be the one to finally have to make the decision yourself because habitual cheating (being covertly rejected) proves he was never really “in the marriage” at all.

I feel so much compassion for those who get publicly rejected and played in an open campaign to destroy them. I think the last chapter of how this is going to work out with a covert player who wants to maintain his good family man image is still to be written. I fully understand that I have to keep my guard up and not trust any apparent changes that are not proven over a long period of time.

Daisy says May 10, 2015

SleepingBeauty, as a fellow writer, I enjoyed reading your well written prose. You stated that you struggle understating a Narc’s mental disorder, something they “didn’t ask for.” I too for many years accepted my Narc’s bad behavior as a byproduct of an abusive childhood, UNTIL I considered the actions of his siblings. While they too have their issues (we all have flaws that need improvement), they possess empathy, caring, that their brother lacks! Narcissism is a LEARNT behavior, fed by narcissistic relatives, usually a Mother or Father. Children can become narcissistic from lack of good parenting and from “over indulgence and unfounded praise” from the narcissistic parent(s) who is grooming the child to mirror them! You may ask how lack of good parenting could be a cause, and the answer is that the child grows up un-civilized, lacking situational awareness. In other words, if the only person you can trust to meet your deepest needs is yourself, others become un-reliable, insignificant, not worth bothering with. It is for these reasons, that narcisstic individuals can steal, hurt, and kill others for material items without even batting an eye! Empathy has never been cultivated in them!

The hardest lesson that my middle age self is still learning is this: to love myself and to protect my own interests, especially when someone else is trying to TAKE or KEEP something good from me!!!! Always look at peoples’ actions, instead of their words!

For example… Do you have relatives/”friends” who want you to comment or like their facebook posts, but they seldom or ever respond or like yours? Have you ever given a book, manuscript to your writer friend / family member to edit/critique, but they never found the time to do so, even when they told you that they would?! Have you ever experienced ” two sets of rules/expectations” with a friend or relative? They want you to attend their life celebrations, but they always make excuses when it is your turn. Do they give you thoughtless gifts, that you believe have been re-gifted, or have no thought or consideration put into them? Or how about the “dominate talker” who steers the conversation to things/people that they like discussing, without any regard to your feelings or subjects that interest you!

The difference between a “normal person who occassionaly acts narcissistic”, to a full- fledge one is, that a normal person self-corrects when their flaws and selfishness is pointed out to them! A bonafide narcissist will purposely IGNORE your complaint, or try to shame you or convince you, that you are the one at fault!

I have the “strike 3 rule!” If I tell someone two times how they offended me, and they don’t apologize nor self-correct, when it happens the third time, I put them out of my life! They no longer have a prominent place in my life, but are regulated to an acquaintance status, and have my access to them LIMITED, if not removed!

SleepingBeauty says May 10, 2015

Hi maryleemorgan and Kim – I too have been ‘married’ to a narcissist for several decades – 40 years in fact. Five years ago when I started searching for answers, there was practically nothing on narcissism on the web, but what little there was (usually hysterical) at least helped me identify narcissistic personality disorder and begin to try to deconstruct what was going on in the relationship. It is a relief to find your site, Kim, and to find I’m not the only one who remained in a long-term narcissistic relationship’, maryleemorgan. So, thanks to both! There is hope now, at least, for the younger women and men who struggle with this terrible, debilitating disorder in their lives so that they may make the right decisions to avoid a lifetime of misery.

I’m curious to know if you have successfully exited, maryleemorgan, and what has transpired since. The ‘upside’ of this nightmare is the insight I have gained into my own psyche and soul,and the personal progress I have made in the last five years, for which I am so grateful.

It is disturbing to realize that it has taken so long for me to come to terms with the reality of this relationship, but there has been a slow, marked progression in my own self-awareness that has been life-changing for me over the last five years. This is so important, to gain some understanding of what it is in me that enabled the situation to go on this long and to begin to rectify my own dependency, self-worth and confidence issues. Because, really, you can only fix yourself, and if you can do that you will survive and thrive.

As with everyone who posts here, my life with N has been hell. N is covert, presents as soulful and sweet, sensitive and caring to the outside world. He is so secretive, so adept at hiding everything, that anyone could be fooled into believing the exterior he manifests. Very bizarre behaviour started early on, after the requisite period of intense courtship and ‘love’, but due to my own neediness and childhood damage, I could not see this behaviour for what it was: a serious disorder that seemed to flourish with systematic acts of destruction of all trust and truth between us.

There have been the ‘usual’ kinds of behaviours, like sex-addiction (not involving me, of course), porn, hookers, and who knows what else. I found out these things purely by chance, like when he undressed and there was a condom on his dick after spending Sunday afternoon at his ‘office’, and seeing texts from an ‘escort service’ saying his date, Mary or Bunny or whoever, would meet him at the bar in ten minutes. Emails trolling on sex-for-hire sites. Copious masturbation. There was complete rejection of my own sexual expression early on, but, due to my own seemingly infinite capacity for abuse, I blamed myself, as he did, and willingly accepted all excuses and explanations as ‘enough’.

Life was sufficiently ‘normal’ otherwise (work, holidays and so on), that time just passed; in my thirties I wanted to have a child and that exercise became so fraught and hurtful that it never happened. I became able to put anything I wanted on the back burner. My background allowed me to consider everything he did and said as right, and my own desires as wrong. Gradually, all sex between us stopped completely, and finally, all expressions of intimacy. I have been a longing, unfulfilled body beside him in bed forever. Unbelievably, I really thought it would change and we would find the ‘happiness’ we once knew together. Perhaps this blue-sky thinking was helping me not to have to admit just how twisted and sick my life really was.

If faced with someone like me now, I’d have to restrain myself from grabbing her shoulders and shaking her til her brain rattled.

The clincher came five years ago, after I was forced out of a job I had loved for 18 years by a narcissist president of the board — I was so vulnerable to being made to feel worthless, so fearful of authority that sought to demean me. Yet I was the executive director of a national branch of a well-known international human rights organization, well-respected and successful, traveling the world, lobbying authoritarian governments at the UN and pulling political prisoners out of jails in far-flung regions. A few months after the final settlement (N found a great lawyer to defend me), everything crashed. N had a great job, great remuneration, just filled with self-satisfaction, while I tried to recover from the blow to my own self-esteem and career, suffering from shame and an overwhelming feeling of loss.

Everything N did he did on his own; he started working out, getting fit, going on solo bike rides, quitting smoking, attending dance performances (he ‘loved dance’ all of a sudden). (I know, I know, red flag, you ninny!) He traveled to Ireland and was transformed; the country was the best place in the world. After one such trip, he returned and called me at the house we share in the country to say he wanted to “include another relationship” in ours (tho he had “no-one in mind in particular”). Long story short, he had fallen in love with an Irish married woman who lived in our home city and who traveled often to Ireland. The bottom (if you can call it that) fell out of my world. It took a long time to figure out what he was saying, what had happened, it didn’t just tumble out as I’ve described it, I had to decipher everything myself for months, the pieces of the puzzle slowly falling into place, the narrative slowly emerging. Most of this was done by me spying on him when he inadvertently left his emails open, that sort of thing. Emails to her professing his love, very intimate conversations where he explained how he never had children due to ‘trust’ issues, and how well I was coping with his news (“very well”). He told her he’d “always be there” for me, “in all ways but one.”

DId I run screaming, glad for the opportunity to be free at last? No, although he did move out for several months at my request. Then he was back. I started to spend more and more time at the country house (7 hours away), especially during summers, and began to build life as a journalist and artist (which I had been before moving into the human rights field).

I really didn’t want to write a too-long post, but I see it is stretching out … are you still with me or have you run screaming in frustration and disbelief at my inability to kick him to the curb? I will try and wrap this up now.

There is so much I could say, so many examples of his crazy-making behaviour, his complete lack of empathy, lack of intimacy of any sort, his put-downs, lack of support for my ideas, his denial that he has hurt me and of course never an apology. Recently I saw an email between him and this Irish woman where he said she looked “lovely” when he last saw her; he has never, ever complimented me. I thought perhaps the whole thing had fallen apart, but apparently not; and the porn and whatever else he does continues. Luckily, I had and still have a wonderful therapist who has gently and firmly helped me move forward and grow in consciousness. WIthout this person’s unswerving dedication to help me, I don’t know what I would have done. I’ve read everything on the topic, and written a lot of poetry and that’s been a lifesaver. I’ve gone from being a completely lost mess to someone who doesn’t react to every trigger, who is becoming the assertive, secure person she used to be.

It’s taken me all this time to get that there will be no change with N, that change can only occur in me. I’m carving out a new life, much of it away from him, as a journalist and artist. N and I are tied through finances, but I am working on trying to disentangle that too. I don’t know how things will end, but I know that I will not go down with the ship.

One thing I still grapple with is that these N people have a mental disorder, they didn’t ask for it, they were severely damaged and part of that damage involves denying it while trying to take down those who love them. The heartbreaking thing is they cannot seem to change, no matter how you try to love them back to health. But at the end of the day, is it worth dying so that someone like that may live? Much of me died: sensuality, passion, my very femininity. Your femininity will never be affirmed, it will never develop fully, if your partner is a narcissist. You will truly walk on eggshells as you carefully plan what you can say and do safely, so much so that you cannot be spontaneous, you cannot be yourself.

I would say to younger people involved with N’s, perhaps cynically, that looking for your soulmate is a myth that needs busting; also, marriage is not the magic pill that will turn your life into a fairy tale forever. It’s hard to accept that the fantasy we are spoon-fed in the media and by society, that we will live happily ever after if we can just find the right mate, is a complete waste of time. I know it does happen, but it is rare; more usual is disenchantment and a desire to do anything to escape the numbing realization that you must keep up a facade of bliss despite the reality of your life together. Instead, work on enlarging your mind, become a whole person with a strong sense of self, be independent and pursue your goals; no-one, not even your soulmate, can do that for you. Then you may be ready to meet your equivalent, someone who will be as committed as you are to a life that is honest, caring and mutually rewarding. And if you don’t meet Prince or Princess Charming, well, you’ll still have your Self and the ability to create the life you really want.

Thanks for this forum.Best wishes to everyone in the struggle.

maryleemorgan says May 10, 2015

Hi SleepingBeauty, our stories do indeed share many similarities! Like yours, my soon-to-be-ex husband is very covert, and presents very believably as that good family man, that good religious man even, that he uses as his façade. And like Daisy, I am also a child of abuse. Working on my recovery from that, years ago, helped me to cope with the horrid toxicity in my marriage but eventually I knew I could not stay and survive.

Yes, I did finally leave about a year ago. I have done—and am still in the process of doing—some things I have always wanted to do. I have reconnected with friendships I had failed to nurture in my focus on him. My relationships with my children are improving, too.

I have also had some very dark hours with my own internal struggles, but the longer I have been away the clearer my thinking has become. The crazy-making in my life is gone because (1) as the necessaries of taking our lives apart get done over time, I am dealing with him less and less, and (2) I am refusing to participate in crazy-making conversations with him.

Like you, I kept thinking that somehow this was all a big misunderstanding and somehow we would someday work this all out. I am thankful for the information available over the internet for, as you say, about the past five years, and can only wish I had understood sooner what I understand now. On the other hand, I was able to do some things for my family, even in that toxic marriage, that I would not have been able to do as a single woman with a single income. I do not regret any of that.

He’s in the stage with me right now generally called “love bombing” because he does not like change and would like to have everything back the way it was. You know, back when he thought he could do anything he pleased and I would never leave. (Yes, I verified that! I know, it’s entitlement.) He’s admitted to a number of other very toxic ways of thinking since I left, as well, but I know better than to trust that admitting something and changing his ways are the same thing. I already know better than that.

Here is the interesting thing: he’s done some romantic things I rarely if ever saw before, things that would have made me melt not long ago, and it’s not working. I am not melting. In fact, it’s pretty opposite of melting!

I have decided not to call him an N, by the way, because I am not qualified to make a diagnosis. And what difference does the label make, anyway? What matters are the toxic behaviors present in the relationship, and there were plenty. I have decided, instead, to call him a player. That is because while I was honestly trying to work together to resolve our issues and create a healthy marriage, he was dishonestly manipulating and playing games with me and the world around us. This kind of relationship is doomed to fail, every time, for the honest one. And there is nothing we can do about that.

So yes, I am out, I am starting to heal, and I know that it is going to take some time. I am being patient with myself. I was discounted and demeaned for so long that I need to be my own biggest fan right now. I have come to pretty much the same conclusions that you have in your letter—right on! But even the strongest of us eventually needs respite. And once we have healed and gone through the work of dismantling the once-joined lives, why would we want to risk having that happen to us again? I just don’t think I have the years or the strength left in me.

SleepingBeauty says May 11, 2015

Hi maryleemorgan – great to hear from you about the progress you have made. Yes, being apart makes all the difference, it gives you the time and space to find yourself again. And what a discovery that is, after so much time disbelieving your abilities, strengths and sanity, eh?

I like that you haven’t seen the need to label your husband’s ways as ‘just’ narcissistic (my therapist would approve!) — ‘player’ really says it all. For me, the N label enabled me finally to understand the problem was universal with these types of people, that it was not just mine. Sometimes a ‘diagnosis’ is a relief, but it is also when the real work begins.

I applaud your courage in severing ties and actually moving out. I am not there yet but at least spend more and more time living and working far away. I realized during our last stint together that I had become nothing more than his loyal servant, doing everything domestic-related, spending huge amounts of time preparing meals and all the rest, every day, pushing my own agenda to the back burner once again.

Sometimes I long for loving companionship that would involve human touch, but I don’t seek it out. Once I met someone very interesting who was passing through here as a summer visitor, but I kept thinking he seemed to be too enthusiastic about how ‘great’ I was much too quickly, he was married, and I was very wary. I have wonderful friends who are very supportive of my new direction in art and writing, and I have myself to love back into existence! Perhaps not what I wished for as a life for myself, but I have never felt better or more hopeful of a life filled with meaning. To nail what we really want, at this stage of life, to find peace of mind, is the greatest gift.

Here’s to us, maryleemorgan, and to a toxic-free life!

Sallie says April 23, 2015

After reading this and other articles on narcissist people I have come to the conclusion that my son has married a girl with this disorder. I feel that there were many red flags early on that we could see, but he was, and still is, blind to. In a mere 18 months we have had 3 fairly major ” blow-ups” stemming from her not liking something we asked about the wedding plans/guest list or us asking her a question about something that didn’t suit her at the moment ( inquiring about the repayment of a loan.) Her MO is to then attack my husband and me verbally all the while my son sits/stands by her thinking that this is all OK and normal. This coming from a son who we NEVER had a minute of discord with for the 20 yrs prior to him meeting her. She “claims” to love our large extended family and wants to be a part of it but I have felt all along that she uses us when it suits her or benefits her and that she really wanted to alienate our son from us so that she could have him all to herself. Well, she finally succeeded. We unfortunately have not spoken to him in over three months. It is mind boggling how everyone around him see what is happening except him.

Anonymous says April 21, 2015

That hit the nail on the head, of a situation I went through with a friend three years ago. Left me devastated at first.

Wendi says April 11, 2015

The question I have is this…. Do I tell the Narcissist that I am done and why or do I just not communicate anything to him and let him figure it out? (I have been involved with him for 6 yrs but no longer reside with him.)

Kim Saeed says April 11, 2015

Wendi, typically if you reach out to tell them you’re done, they figure out a way to sabotage your decision.

Mary says February 23, 2015

Kim, I think this writing will help me the most in breaking free from the nagging feeling of “what if” that I have, and ant temptation to return if he ever showed up again. No contact 4 months and counting. Thanks again and love to you for publishing this. It helps me from going insane.

Kim Saeed says February 23, 2015

Mary, thank you so much for letting me know that. 4 months No Contact! Wow….that’s very impressive 🙂

Alison Romero - Watanabe says February 9, 2015

I was in a horrific and demeaning psychological and physically abusive relationship for 12+ years. Will constantly swore, blamed, threatened, lied, played mind games and punished me when I did not say or do something that met his expectations. In public, he is charismatic, friendly and funny. At home, behind closed doors, it was insidious. Will denied saying or doing something earlier, was secretive, gambled, had porn, never expressed his own thoughts, and got mad if I had an opinion different from his. The few times he bought a gift for me, he demanded it back saying I wasn’t deserving of the gift and because I did not buy him a thank you gift for his gift, he punished me more. He said he kept a calendar of when I complained. I asked him to say ‘please’ as he always commands me to do something and I told him I would still do it, but saying ‘please’ sounds nicer. He said he was too busy to think about saying ‘please’ and because I asked, more so, he wouldn’t. He would make a fist and make like he was going to hit me and tell me ‘I want to punch your face.’ I was walking on glass, having to chose the right approach and words to him. No matter what I did, he was angry and punished me. The thing was he blamed me for causing him to get mad or do and say the things he did. I was believing it was all my fault but it was getting too ridiculous. We use to go to the ‘Y’ to work out, but all of a sudden, he stopped. He told me because I went to the bathroom and didn’t tell him, he had to search for me and as I try to reason with him, more excuses from him. His abuse came more often and worsened with time, and his silent treatment and punishment lasted longer. I guess, it was a normalcy of him kicking me out often and the faulting, the abuse, I just took it as he was breaking me down. He had to make his abuse more to hurt me, to take his control back and punish me. I had still an ounce of self worth and called our local Domestic Violence Center in late 2014 and they did an assessment and confirmed I was a battered woman of psychological and physical abuse, and helped me in the survival process. Luckily, I had his emails documenting his rants and recorded some of his verbal tantrums because I thought I was going crazy with his true self, only with me. To friends at karaoke, he is totally a different person. For me, the longer I stayed in the relationship, Will’s abuse got more severe. I want to share my story. I feel blessed now, as he no longer can control or abuse me. It is a struggle, but I found the peace in my life and not having to be scared going home to someone who was so demonic.

Wiser says February 5, 2015

Hi Kim, thank you for your article. I’d like to ask if you think that all all narcissists are nice at the beginning, then spiteful, etc later on? My ex has narcissistic qualities, but he was pretty horrible to me from after the first date – there wasn’t a long honeymoon period. The lack of conscience at treating me badly, then fighting to stay in my life when I told him to get lost, the no holds barred apologies and promises to commit to me, then breaking promises without remorse asap, seem narcissistic. Definitely not normal. He finally left me to supposedly reconcile with his ex-wife and little son, then contacted me almost 2 months later (I assume it had ended by then, but I ignored him), contacted me again a month after that (again, I ignored him) and next thing I know, he’s in a serious relationship with a much younger woman who was talking about being in love in no time at all (yes, I stalked him on social media – I’m not proud).

Earlier this year, I found that he was cheating on her by being active on a dating site while she thought he’s the love of her life, etc. Clearly, he hasn’t changed much, and if he marries this young girl, I’m not sure that it’ll last any longer than his first marriage, which ended after 3 years or so. He is apparently a great guy to his family, friends and this young girl, but was usually unnecessarily cruel, dishonest, disrespectful and had zero remorse towards me (unless he was trying to get into my underwear) and generally behaved like a spoilt little boy in a hot grown man’s body. Is he just a horrible person or could he be described as narcissistic?

The 3 people that I spoke with separately about him all happened to say that this relationship won’t last because of his history of sleeping around with casual bedroom buddies, professional prostitutes and his trail of broken relationships. He worships money, success and beautiful women, so I’m fairly sure it would take a lot for him to wake up and grow up. I was jealous about why he’d moved on so quickly with this girl and agonised over what she has that I don’t (he’s already ‘in’ with her family and it all seems very cosy), until I realised that his feeling towards her are insincere if he’s cheating on her, knowing she is in love with him. Anyway, I’ve stopped viewing his social media and am making plans to fill my time with enjoyable things. I still think about him though. He doesn’t tick all the boxes of narcissism, sociopaths, etc. So is he a horrible person or enough of a narcissist to be regarded as such?

Thanks for your time.

Wiser says February 5, 2015

P.S. When I talk about his brilliant apologies and promises, I mean to say that this guy went to great lengths to get me on-side when I was furious at him. Then his behaviour would get worse. Then he offer even more brilliant apologies and promises, fighting to keep me on-side. This convinced me that he might be sincere, why else would he fight so hard when he could walk away? Then the cruelty would resurface. Just to clarify that although it was stupid of me to ignore the red flags that were popping up almost immediately, he put up a great show when he wanted to. I just couldn’t understand why he would bother as he was a magnet to other women too, so why fight for me if there was clearly no deep feelings for me. Thanks again.

Kim Saeed says March 13, 2015

Wiser, thank you for reaching out and sharing your experience.

One way we often get ourselves into trouble is by thinking if they don’t meet every single trait on the pathological checklist, they are somehow “safer” than one who might possess all the traits. I can tell you that even a few of the traits is enough to destroy the lives of people they are involved with.

It’s hard to tell if he’s a full-blown NPD or just has the traits, but either way, he certainly doesn’t sound like relationship material as it’s very obvious that he only cares about himself. You’d do well to go full-out No Contact and move on with your life so you can heal.

Hope that helps.

miss kitty says January 24, 2015

this is very informative, thank you very much…….. makes so much sense.

I really need to ask a question my girlfriend asked me about her boyfriend being obcessed with his dick and loving getting oral sex but never returned the favor and told her it’s because of his ex girlfriend and her bad hygiene. to me this sounds like she has herself a true “N” for a boyfriend. what do you think? and he is very controlling too. Hides her car keys, takes her dog so she’ll let him back in when he runs off for hours and doesn’t say where he was. etc….. The not giving oral but demanding oral daily thing caught my attention and I wanted to run it by all of you experienced people. thanks

Kim Saeed says January 24, 2015

Miss Kitty, I wouldn’t necessarily attribute his sexual preferences to Narcissism, but his hiding her keys and taking her dog do sound rather pathological. Combined with those things, his seemingly selfish sexual requests do add up to possible Narcissism.

miss kitty says June 5, 2015

thank you

Heartbroken Narcissist Lover says January 13, 2015

I’ve read a lot on this lately. I thought I couldn’t learn anymore on the subject. But today I found this article by searching, “Why doesn’t anyone know about narcissism”?. It seems like so few people even know it exists. I didn’t get it until now and I’m 56 years old. This is the second covert female narcissist I’ve married that has done all they could to utterly destroy me after I naively caused “narcissistic injury” to them by trying to put my foot down. Wow, did I get the surprise of my life. I was married to this “love of my life” for nine years before I finally came out of denial. It’s so hard to believe she really really doesn’t love me afterall. With all the classic signs and tells, I just have been finding it impossible to accept her cruelty and extreme “character assassination” campaign. And to think ,this is the second time I’ve brought this on myself. How I pray I’ve learned my lesson, once and for all.

Narcissism is so insidious; so destructive. I wished I would have known about it sooner and I wished more people did too.

This article has enlightened me even more to the evil basis of the disorder. It is very insightful and well written. Thank you.

Your list under the heading, “Sacred Self vs. Ego”, is just the clarity and reminder I needed to survive the day.

Please keep up the good work.

Anonymous says December 28, 2014

Thanks Kim for your wonderful article. I’ve been in a relationship for almost 20 years. So long that I doubt myself often, even to the level of writing this and expressing my opinion. My wife appears to be what is described as a narcissist, however, she is also very giving to others. I guess that’s what has made me second guess myself all these years. Even though I was made to feel like crap, I thought she must be a good person. She is hyper social and spends hours on Facebook. I finally have seen the light and have stopped trying to please her. The early years of our marriage was verbal fighting nearly every other day and I’m a quiet and don’t like conflict. I told her I didn’t like fighting but she convinced me that it was passion. I’m not talking an occasional fight but almost daily. Over the years it seemed like every complaint I had about what hurt me fell upon deaf ears. I’m just struggling because I’m also an eternal optimist and I always think that someday she will stop getting angry and I can trust her. It just never happens. PS Im not a person without problems (which I’ve always known) but I feel I need some validation. Thanks!!!

Sandy says December 21, 2014

“The important thing to understand about Narcissists is they don’t comprehend that they have a disorder and that it’s toxic to the people who become romantically involved with them.”

I ran across a different opinion on the web the other day, and so with all due respect Kim, I have to say I tend to disagree and therefore would like to share what I read in case it helps or makes any sense to others, concerning the narc’s culpability.

The premise was very simple-the fact that our abusers are able to act normally around outsiders, then revert to abuse once outsiders are out of the picture says that they do indeed know what they are doing is toxic to others, that it is wrong, and that they shouldn’t be doing it. No mater if it is labeled a disorder, a tendency, or just a bad habit, if they didn’t know they were doing it, they wouldn’t be able to STOP doing it in order to influence perceptions. Just as a truly insane person is not capable of altering their behavior in an effort to conceal wrong-doing, neither would an abuser be able to in an effort to make others think he’s a nice guy. After reading that, I’ve come to believe they do indeed know exactly what they are doing, they know good and well how bad it hurts us, but they do it anyway because they just don’t care.

I’m sorry I can’t tell you where I found that viewpoint. I’m just passing it along…

Mark Melanson says December 21, 2014

well it is clear to me now that i will never receive respect and acceptance from the narcissists who were in my life such as my father, brothers and other family members. i used to wonder why so many members of my family were so abusive until i realized there were many members of my family who possessed npd or married someone who was, i even had an ex girlfriend who was an alcoholic and at very advanced stage, that i realized was not going to give it up for me no matter how her choices affected me. i can say im aware npd exists everywhere and is an epidemic today i must be careful not to get drawn into their mentality and the power they seek, they will use and abuse you and try to get you to conform………….dont run away never look back. many people dont understand what its like to have close family members who are narcissistic and often question my choice to completely avoid them. as difficult as that is being a sensitive loving man, it is harmful and draining for me to be exposed to them and their thinking…

Kdawg says August 20, 2014

Okay, I have been the proverbial fly on the wall listening with great interest to all of the heart and hurts that have gone into each and every post. I am amazed at the similarities of my own situation. I have been married for 27 years and up until year number 7 things seemed really good. We managed to get through after about a month of being separated when she told me to find another place to live because she needed some space. I was in my junior year of college and that was tough especially since we had a little girl who has always been the sweetest apple of my eye. I had no idea where it all came from and for the next 5 years I literally lived on pins and needles afraid that I would say or do the wrong thing to invoke the words of heartbreak. We moved to a big city for better opportunities and we both found amazing jobs and for the next 11 years it all seemed to be going smoothly. Then she wanted a bigger house and nicer furniture and nicer cars and wanted to live luxurious lives like the friends she worked with who went on vacations to the Bahamas and drank expensive wine and went hob-nobbing at nightclubs. I was in ministry and drinking was not an accepted form of responsible leadership. She complained that our new house wasn’t getting worked on like I promised (we kept the condo to use as a rental property and I was still trying to finish that project). Then, I lost my job. All hell broke loose and she came unglued. All of the sudden this sweet girl once again became a monster and called me names and couldn’t believe she was having to drive her “crap car” and that she was done, she wanted a divorce. No infidelity on my part. Just a hard working guy who believes in the virtues of family, faith and forgiveness. She moved out of the bedroom to the guest room and has even spent the night in her closet when a guest came and stayed over. The behavior is so odd and unpredictable that I still shake my head. The only thing that gets me through is my faith. “Love bears all things, believes all things, hopes all things, endures all things. Love never fails.” 1 Corinthians 13:7-8.
I signed on for better, for worse; For richer, for poorer; In sickness and in health; ’til death do us part. I am not a martyr but I do believe that love can win her over.

Need Help Moving On says June 5, 2014

I think that my ex may be a narcissist. I have spent 2 1/2 years with him on and off. He exhibits all of the traits described on this website. I tried my best to make him happy, I always tried to learn and change when he told me he was breaking up with me for some reason. I finally hit rock bottom today after more manipulation and uncaring behavior. I called him up told him for the first time honestly that he had treated me horribly in our time together and i deserved more and I deserved an apology. He essentially told me that it was my fault, I’m crazy, and he was in the right. I am getting a therapist and trying to move on. Every time i do he draws me back but he claims this time I’m crazy and he would do anything to get away from me and never talk to me. I hope its true because I’m tired of being cheated on, lied to, hidden from friends of his, told I’m not good enough until he needs or wants something. Thats when he loves me. This website makes me get a better understanding and really began to believe i did the right thing.

Kim Saeed says June 10, 2014

Need Help, you were indeed doing the right thing when you decided to leave him.

These people will say and do whatever is necessary to make you believe all the problems in the relationship are your fault when, the fact is, it’s because they are soulless. Nothing you ever do would be enough for them. At the same time, they cannot shoulder one iota of fault. Therefore, they have an innate need to place the burden on your shoulders…

There is nothing wrong with you. You are a lovely person who deserves to be treated with decency and respect. If you still have some strings attached, get rid of this imposter by going full No Contact. Pardon me for being direct, but this guy’s a real loser and you are way above his league…

ginafantsaez says June 10, 2014

I wanted to wish you the best moving on. The No Contact thing is sometimes debilitating and excruciating and I have yet to successfully do it. I’m in the midst of what I hope to be my final No Contact. Until yesterday, I have always left some tiny door open that my ex could squeeze through and suck me back in with promises to change. I’ve blocked her calling me, emailing me, told her I’d call the police if she stepped foot on my property, changed all my passwords to everything online and as far as I know, there is not one tiny crack that she can weasel her way through to come back crying and apologizing, just to start abusing me a week later. – I wanted to tell you that I’m working with Kim, the head of this website – I call her my break-up coach – and that is really helping me so much. She’s been invaluable. I saw that you are looking for a therapist and i wanted to give you a heads up from someone who has been to many therapists, that VERY few therapists truly understand emotional abuse and what it’s like being a partner of a Narcissist. Many therapist always say “relationships are 50/50 responsibility”. Well, sorry to be crass, but bullshit when it comes to someone emotionally abusing you and keeping your head spinning 24/7 with passive aggressive comments and behaviors and NEVER taking responsibility for their lives or behavior. So, be resourceful in finding someone who specializes in emotional abuse for partners of someone with personality disorders. And, I would recommend working with someone like Kim, who has been through this, someone who knows what you’re going to be going through with No Contact. While she’s not a therapist, she has successfully freed herself from an abusive relationship and is so generously extending herself for other people to do the same. For me, that’s what I need right now – not a general therapist who is going to make it all about my childhood – which I do know is important – but I want help in this moment, right now. Talking about my childhood is not going to help me when my ex shows up at my door weeping and begging for my forgiveness. And your ex will… Give it time… I want to let go of this hell I’ve been in once and for all. And for me, it is the biggest comfort to now be working with someone who understands how impossibly hard it is to let go of the up and down and on and off relationship you’ve been conditioned to accept and makes me feel understood and not crazy. So, hang in there. Lets all support each other to let go of these truly, soulless people to live happy healthy joyful lives. All the very best to you, Gina

Kim Saeed says June 14, 2014

Gina, thank you so much for your very encouraging input. It means the world to know that I’ve helped you in such a way. Everything you’ve said is true, and I could see you moving on in a similar capacity one day…and helping other people. You’re a very intelligent, insightful person. You are going to get through this and I believe something big is in store for you.

Hugs ~ Kim

foolish says May 30, 2014

I have left posts on another trail here,but want to say this is the most helpful site I have come across in the 2-3 months of agony I have been going through. Thank you everyone for your very heartfelt posts….my story is not exactly like any of the ones I have read, but there are elements ……I guess I should be grateful that this man is not violent or angry in an overt way ……he simply insisted I immediately make changes in my life if I wanted to continue to see him and I could not do what he asked. ( this has been a long term affair, and suddenly I was told I must divorce my husband now, or never see him again……) I cannot do that at this time for many reasons and so he I moving on…….and is displaying many if not all of the traits of a narcissist…thank you again for this website and a place to share our stories and lift each other up

More Wiser Now says May 1, 2014

Jonathan, it is due to a “cultural shift”, more than anything. The access of easy money (living on credit); the advent of social media and the need to brand/broadcast yourself 24-7; the loss of family identity; un-realistic views of beauty/perfection/aging; and the uprise of materialism have all contributed to this epidemic. After reading this book, it is easy to see how people can develop into narcissists, especially when our culture celebrates them! Today, young people would rather be famous over having a good reputation or being good upstanding citizens. I don’t know about you, but I can’t believe how many school teachers are getting caught doing the most absurd, out-landish things! Women are just as bad now! Today’s mantra seems to be “Look at me, Look at me! See how hot, sexy, and beautiful I am!” Plastic Surgery has increased 400X and middle aged people are turning to it, to keep their edge or to fool themselves into thinking that they are younger than they really are! Grandparents are dressing like their children/grandchildren, so each generation has to do something more drastic (***insert *** full body tattoo’s or ear gauging) just to separate themselves from their elders. Kim’s site and a few others are places where people can learn about this scurge and to educate themselves on knowing the signs and symptoms of narcissistic behaviors and how to protect yourself.

jonathan hockey says May 2, 2014

Yes, there are certainly some major cultural problems that need to be addressed in the western world. It is something I am trying to address and engage in my own way, and it is good to see a site like this doing something similar.

jonathan hockey says April 30, 2014

This is a very interesting post, and very well written, I just wanted to say though I think there could be a danger here of type-casting people here. I have heard from my own experiences of counselling that 1% of human beings are of the exploitative, manipulative, socio-pathic kind. And if we have an experience with one of these people we may come to not trust others and see these tendencies in other people when it is not really there. Narcissism crosses over with this to some degree, but then, for most people they are capable of change if we are not too quick to type cast them. For example, we all have some tendencies of this kind I believe, but we learn to control them and not let them control us. It is only for this socio-pathic 1% of people, I think, that they are completely unchangeable in their ways, with the other 99% its often just a matter of finding the right ways to be assertive with them in order to get your point across, so that they may then see it and begin to change their ways to some extent. Though I have not had the kind of personal experiences of a relationship with a narcissist in order to know it in as much detail as many others.

FAQ Friday – 5 Common Questions About the Common Narcissist | Let Me Reach with Kim Saeed says April 18, 2014

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Anonymous says April 12, 2014

The hardest council for me to accept is to walk away and have nothing to do with your narcissist. Easier said then done, especially when they are family. I’ve taken a different approach recently. I’ve decided that isolating myself from them only breeds hate and suspicion. Hate really is a triangle of isolation/suspicion/attaching negative intentions. Love is just the opposite. Fellowship/trust/attaching positive intentions. I am not responsible for another person’s actions, only my own. I can speak the truth in love when I have the facts to support my assertion(s). I am not responsible for whether someone accepts the truth or my perspective, but I have the responsiblity to myself to speak against injustice and callous behaviors. I’ve heard it said that conflict is really an opportunity (in disguise) to teach someone a lesson that they need to learn in order to become a better person. I agree however, that you have to take narcissists in small doses and to be mentally prepared for their ambushes; manipulations and bad behavior. A wise person once told me “you can ask anything of anyone, but you better be prepared to accept their answer.” The problem with narcissists is that they don’t accept peoples answers (choices) but are in a constant state of trying to get others to do/think/respond in the way that they want. Remembering that I always have the “right” to exercise my choice is freeing for me when dealing with my narcissist. She/he can ask anything from me, but they must be willing to accept my answer. When they push back; try to shame me; guilt me; or scold me into compliance, I just smile and say “I’ve given you my answer, so please accept it.” If they push harder, I just walk away. I also don’t return like for like, but try to attain to the highest level of love which is unconditional acceptance. I only physically distance myself (totally estrange myself) from a narcissist life, if they repeatedly hurt me and cause irreparable harm. When they do this, they are beyond repair (unless God himself intervenes) and have reached a state of “evil.”

More Wiser Now says April 11, 2014

The hardest thing for me in dealing with a narcissist (and I have dealt with a few) is how “fused” other people and family members can be with these individuals. Sadly, if a spouse stays married long enough to their narcissist, they too will start to think/act like them. They will be conditioned to the “right response”, the narcissist’s way or else receive the rage and tongue lashings for non-compliance. No opinion matters except for the narcissists. People who “disagree” are called crazy; mean; brainless; etc. I experienced the “wrath” first hand when I went up against a S-I-L after a Christmas party/gift exchange. She DELIBERTLY gave us re-gifts and I could prove it! One gift was twenty years old! When I made mention of it on FB (without mentioning her name, just the details) I was dogpiled by her family. Her husband and children! I was made to be the bad guy. I did apologize (at the insistence of my husband) to keep peace in the family. But, I hated my actions since then. No one from her family acknowledged our hurt! It was all about them! Narcissists operate by two sets of rules. One for them and for everyone else. EXPECT pushback if you publicly diagree. I have hardned my own heart toward this particular narcissist and really don’t care if she likes me. Why? Narcissists only “like” you when you are doing their bidding; living your life by their “rules” and accepting their bad behaviors. Life is too short to accept this B.S., especially when there are other people who can and will love your freely without any SICK mind games!

Kim Saeed says April 11, 2014

I completely understand where you are coming from. As you said, it’s all about conditioning and compliance, but when you point out that “we’re not in Kansas anymore”, that’s when it all goes South.

As far as families, no one wants to deal with it, so there’s usually a perpetual conspiracy to just cover up the sickness and pretend that all is well. And everyone wants YOU to be the bigger person and pretty much enable the disordered person to continue their path. I normally recommend cutting those types of people out of one’s life because it brings nothing but grief and negative energy.

firenice84 says April 11, 2014

I totally agree with More Wiser Now. It does not matter if you’re married to one or have lived with one (or a few) in your biological family. You end up being conditioned to live with a Narcissist. I have moved out of my family home (full of Narcissists) many many years ago, but I still find myself conditioned to responding to narcissists, even when I’m married to a wonderful man and have very wonderful extended family now. It was only during therapy last week that I realised that I’m still constantly seeking approval and wondering if I am doing the right thing and if there were any repercussions. All because of the self-doubt that eventually plagues all who live with narcissists. It’s like I’ve learnt how to behave in a dysfunctional family that I don’t know how to behave in a less dysfunctional one (IMHO all families are dysfunctional to some degree). Being accepted solely for myself without having to “do” anything for anyone is a concept which is very foreign to me because of being conditioned to accept conditional love.

Kim, I also totally agree with you that everyone wants US to make changes and keep the family together. After 2 years of battling with PTSD, I finally told my dad about it in February this year. He replied that he can understand how much I have been hurt by my sister and my mother and told me that I have to let it go to get better. Then he said that he wanted to get the whole family together. It was like he didn’t read a word of that super lengthy email! I replied giving examples of how either my mother or sister ruin holidays and get togethers. All I got was a succinct “I get your point”. I am still trying to decipher if my dad is a narcissist or if he’s an enabler. It’s not totally clear cut for him. But for letting my dad know that I’m not getting in the midst of all the family trouble at the moment, I’m getting the silent treatment. But that’s perfectly alright with me. No news is good news, I think! 🙂

Christine hoff says April 11, 2014

This is a very strange world to live in……..mine has finally gone into therapy which I found, specializing in police and fire personnel. Love bombing me……..but is not home………begging me to go to marriage counseling………I see this just as a ploy so he can say he went into counseling and make me the bad guy cuz I still want out!! I will play the artiage counseling game for now…….what other choice do I have?

Kim Saeed says April 13, 2014

It’s very possible that he is doing that as a cover for ulterior motives. Just be on the alert. You will find out the truth sooner or later. Best of luck!

Katy says April 10, 2014

I really don’t know if my ex is a Narc. I’m sure for a fact though that his dad is, he fits the profile completely. He’s very controlling of my ex’s life and he has been through like 4 marriages, and is a serial cheater. My ex always criticized his behavior and was disgusted by it. Except he did the same to me. I did do make a lot of mistakes in the relationship, i was insecure and jealous, but it was mostly reaching out to him and expecting what i was offering in return. This made me come out as the controlling one, not him. I don’t think there was a need to control my life because i had always bent over backwards for him.
I don’t know if it’s cognitive dissonance, or brainwashing, but he pretty much blamed me for his affair. He said i suffocated him, and while “i was punching holes, she was filling them in”, that’s his exact words. Me and him were long distance, and so are him and her. He painted me as a controlling monster to this woman, nagging about how i make his life hell. After disclosing the affair and discarding me, he said she was everything he wants, she understands him (like i never did), she gave him his pride back. He was so cruel to me, told me to get out of his life, that he doesn’t love me anymore, all that… Noting that, through out the entire relationship, i was “the one for him, his savior, the reason he became a good man, the woman of his dreams…” fast forward a couple of days later, i make it seem like i’m seeing someone, he comes back running to me telling me he made a mistake, that he projects her in me, he likes in her the things that resemble me. In a weird twist of events, i become the other woman (lovely) for a couple of days, then he breaks up with her (while still being hung up on her), and i take him back… after-which i knew further details of the affair and dumped him. He went back to her and he just acted like i don’t exist.
After three weeks, we met when i was on vacation in his country (my brother lives there as well), we met, and he WEEPED for like an hour and said that she’s the biggest regret in his life and went on about how he loves me like no other, said he’s gonna leaver her. He lured me back in with that, only to further go back and forth between us both. In the end, he chose her, because he says she doesn’t expect anything and i expect a lot. I only wanted him to cut ties with her, that’s it. He said he loves me more but doesn’t wanna be with me. He didn’t wanna lose touch with me and would text me all day, never failing to show sexual interest in me. I put an end to that and didn’t talk to him for 2 weeks. And then i contacted him again 🙁 he was friendly and made it clear that he’s a changed man, that this time he wants to do the right thing, that she’s the one, that they’re moving to Australia together (and will get married in a year or so), that he’s happy for me being with someone else, that he no longer has ANY feelings for me, and that he no longer craves me sexually. two days later he texts me that he had a very sexually explicit dream about me where he ended up choking me, and he wanted to check if i’m doing ok and was like “please be careful”… I really don’t know how to make sense of this madness to be honest. Please help 🙁

Kim Saeed says April 19, 2014

“He says she doesn’t expect anything and I expect a lot”…I heard those exact words, verbatim.

Narcissists all have a similar story when they discard one partner for another…”I’m changed. I’m happy now. She loves me for who I am without expecting me to change”, etc., etc. It’s their way of making us feel regret for requesting fidelity and normal relationship dynamics. It’s often also what lures women back into the toxic relationship because they think, “Well, I can do what she’s doing. Maybe if I mold myself into what he wants, he’ll stay”. What we don’t recognize at the time is that we have to essentially give up our whole identity and sense of self to do so.

The fact that he texted you after making it clear the relationship is over is a form of baiting and hoovering. He’s just checking in to see if he’s still at the forefront of your mind and if he has a chance of sneaking back in when your defenses are down. The best thing to do at this point would be to block him from your cell phone, email, and whatever other avenues he can use to communicate with you. Go cold turkey. After 4-8 weeks of No Contact, you will start to feel the FOG lift and gain some clarity.

Wishing you the best. Feel free to reach out again if needed.

Annie says August 22, 2014

Katie,
Do not believe any of this, please.
I have been in your shoes. They will say and do anything to jerk you around.
That dream he said he had, and warning you to be careful? Was probably in a weird way warning you about him! He will choke you if you let him back in.

The only way to disengage from these sick ones is to have NO CONTACT. NONE.
Kim is right.

Mary Lee Morgan says April 8, 2014

I came here from Carrie’s site. Thanks, Carrie, for sharing.

Kim, this is great. Right on. I am an INFJ sensitive in the process of leaving an almost-50-year marriage to a dependent narcissist. I kept hoping that somehow we could make it work for a lifetime for the sake of family, but his serial cheating finally crossed a line that is the last straw. He propositioned my sister during a time that I had been caring for him through a long series of surgeries, and I was still dressing his surgery wounds daily. And I still feel sad for him because he has become old and feeble and needs someone to depend on more than ever. He’s going to end up some day in a nursing home, at the state’s expense and not one of his own choosing, calling out for someone who doesn’t come. And there is nothing I can do about it, nor should I.

But you know what is the saddest? Once again, the ones who will be hurt the most are children–in this case, our grandchildren. He was a better grandfather than he was at anything, and his grandkids are going to be very hurt if he does what his fragile ego wants to do, which is run away and cease all contact with the family from his end when he can no longer maintain the “family man” façade of having a house and wife. He’s threatened to do this all along if the marriage failed, and I finally took that threat off the table by deciding that I will be the one to leave.

I keep coming to sites like this because I keep learning–they are a literal lifeline to sanity when you are still living in the “nothing makes sense” world of the N. You said something here that is a new thought to me: N’s like to fight. If you listen to him, you’d think I was the one who liked to fight and he’s the victim, but it’s yet another thing that he has turned upside down, blaming me for exactly what he himself is doing.

I do think that I know him and his family background well enough to understand how he got this way, but the whole reason for understanding such things is to resolve, to heal, and to move on. As you say, Ns do not do that since they see no need to change, and if the need for change is pointed out to them all it does is insult them and they go off feeling victimized–again, and they will punish–again.

I read on one site where a woman said it took her five years to get free of the N once she decided on the divorce. I don’t think it’s going to take me five years, but I am already 14 months in and still in the house with him–but NOT in the same room! I am making progress, though, on every front, whether others can see much of it yet or not. I will get there! It’s a done deal in my head, so it will be done. And all of my conversations with him while I am still here just serve to verify everything you said in your post.

Kim Saeed says April 9, 2014

Mary,

Thank you for sharing your story. Being a sensitive certainly makes it hard to leave because our whole purpose here is to love and try to help/heal people. However, being with a Narcissist is like throwing all of your love and effort into an abyss because those efforts are never acknowledged or appreciated, which would be okay if it helped the other person to BE a better person, but that’s not the case with Narcissists.

I’m glad you find my site and the others to be helpful in your situation. Having these resources to fall back on is so important in the process of leaving an abusive partner. I wish I’d known my Ex was a Narcissist when I left, but I knew nothing and unfortunately did everything the hard way. The one good thing that resulted from that is being able to reflect on his behaviors so I can write things that help others who are fighting their own battle.

maryleemorgan says April 9, 2014

That is the saddest part, isn’t it–knowing it all went into an abyss? I think knowing that my efforts were in vain is harder, even, than being discarded over and over and all the other abusive relationship things he does. My soon-to-be-ex N, from what I have read, is a dependent narcissist, and even though I cannot tolerate this environment with him any longer, I still feel sad for him. He doesn’t want me to go, of course, because I have always taken care of him and needs that even more than ever now, at his age. But he still doesn’t get it and I just can’t stay.

Kim Saeed says April 19, 2014

Mary, I once felt the same way you do right now. I struggled with feeling guilty for the longest time. However, I read somewhere that it’s not our responsibility to fix them. Their lessons are their own to learn, and the most loving thing we can do is leave them because it’s only then that there is the small (less than 1%) chance that they might do some introspection and change. Rarely ever happens, but at least we give them that opportunity when we leave.

Not to mention we can’t heal until we do so…

Carrie Reimer says April 8, 2014

Reblogged this on Ladywithatruck's Blog and commented:
excellent post by Kim

armyofangels2013 says April 6, 2014

Great read, Kim…In my self discovery, I learned that I am INFJ. Also found myself described as a Highly Sensitive Person. I was so full of hope that narc would change, it only I could show him enough love….Boy was I wrong. Thank you for sharing such great information!

Lee says April 6, 2014

I’d say that it is possible for a narcissist to change, but this is highly unlikely to happen. And no one else, especially including someone in a “romantic” relationship with a narcissist, can bring about that change from the outside.

Real change requires an internal change of mind and heart initiated by the narc. But narcs rarely even reach the point of self-awareness required for that to happen. So the practical answer for those in a relationship with a narc is that s/he will never change, the relationship is doomed, and the best course of action is to leave the relationship and impose a no-contact rule. In this I agree 100% with you, Kim.

I have also come to believe that this is the most loving and caring thing to do for the narc (for those who still care about the narc).

Why?

Because the one very slim ray of hope that the narc may some day reach the level of self-awareness required to see that s/he is a narcissist and make the internal choice to change is to experience rejection from one after another “lover.” If the narc finally runs through the available victims and ends up alone, then there is a remote possibility of looking inward for the causes of the failure. Please understand, this is still very unlikely to happen. But it will never happen as long as there is a victim to suck the life out of. Victims are not contributing to the spiritual wellbeing of narcs by staying with them.

Thanks, Kim, for another great post. I very much appreciate that you’ve not only moved out of victimhood yourself, but have continued beyond your own release to provide good, solid guidance for others still caught in its thrall. My own experience was mild compared to most. But it did give me great respect for those who have climbed out of much deeper pits than I did.

persiakarema says April 6, 2014

Brilliant post. Thanks for this. I know I’m not willing to take the risk ever again!

bethbyrnes says April 6, 2014

A great description and wonderful insights, as usual Kim. I especially like this last paragraph:
“Can a relationship with a Narcissist last?” Only if you are willing to devote yourself to serving them without any expectations that they will reciprocate. You must accept that they will likely cheat, steal, lie, and talk badly about you. Even then, it wouldn’t guarantee they would stay with you because they do whatever their ego commands them to do.”

That was exactly my experience. Better to be rid of this kind of person than to try futilely to make it work. Wish I had this advice or had recognized this guy in advance!

daveyone1 says April 6, 2014

Reblogged this on World4Justice : NOW! Lobby Forum..

Phill Ferreira says April 6, 2014

Reblogged this on The Story of my Twin Boys , Oliver and Oscar Ferreira.

made58 says April 6, 2014

Reblogged this on MadeleineMaya.

KarinKateriKei says April 6, 2014

Once again, the timing of one of your posts is perfect in my life. I too, characterize myself as an Empath/Sensitive with a very strong Guardian component to my personality. My core still feels sad and wonders at times why everything that I did and gave up wasn’t enough. Intellectually, I’m beginning to understand but… All my strengths in RL, were played like a violin by the Narc. His nightmares abated with me, I gave him love he never had from his wife, he needed me to help with his children… who wouldn’t want to know they were helping another being? I know now that even as he told me he’d die without me, could never love another and to never leave, that there was at least one other woman on the hook. More than anything, I still can’t understand why he didn’t just leave me alone. There were/are others, who are blind to his pathological tendencies and I know they provide supply. He destroyed my life utterly and yet, his goes on. All for a game…
This is fruitless thinking, I know. He has no conscience and doesn’t care, this much is a fact but it is a damn bitter pill to have to swallow. It leaves me wary of trusting the instincts that before were a virtue to both me and the people in my life, or of trusting fully the intentions of someone new…

Contortum Designs says April 6, 2014

Wonderful article! I am a caregiver/nurturer type and I have always had difficulty understanding narcissists. It’s just difficult for me to wrap my mind around the idea that people can be so selfish and cruel. I have definitely met a few narcissists in my day, not my cup of tea! Thanks for breaking it down and explaining the differences!

betternotbroken says April 6, 2014

I still have a very difficult time “understanding” narcissists. I have come to just accept how they are because post-divorce I see the pattern with there people again and again. I feel for people who want to make it work with a narcissist and caution that everything you “give” may have been given based on lies told to you by the narcissist and so from my “understanding” it is not valued because the narcissist may not truly have been unloved by his wife, may not truly want help with his children, he/she may simply want a source of narcissistic supply. I love the first part of your post Kim, is is ESSENTIAL to take your time with getting to know someone if you want stability and a healthy long term relationship. I dabbled in returning to the dating world but it was like being interviewed for a job vacancy that had to be filled yesterday. That is EXACTLY how you get locked into a relationship with a disordered person, so once again great insight and advice.

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